Best System for occasional player

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

If we claim him the winner, will he stop?

what is wrong with bringing up old threads? do you want me to create an entire new thread even tho it has already been talked about? seems silly to have 2-3 threads with the exact same subject, and u know damn well somebody is gonna say "hey bob, check this thread out".. i will try not to be such an ass on here (insulting ploppys), but in return, i wud like it if you guys werent so bias against me.. no matter what i do or say, its wrong and u insult me, BUT i did the exact same thing back in april and nobody said anything.. also, i can find tons of ppl who do/say the same things as me and nobody insulted them.. so listen, all of you who have said a smart ass comment to me, just stop ok? i just want to talk about blackjack? THATS IT.. i will stop insulting ppl if you stop insulting me.. (this stems from many threads, and it seems to be the same 3-4 ppl insulting me)

 

[aslan]

I'm pretty sure he meant that he plays at 5 and 10 dollar minimum tables. And I can't not recommend free Hi Lo, but the next best thing would be to buy Knock-Out Blackjack. KO is the easiest professional system and it is just as good as Hi Lo.

I second that. KO is the simplest possible professional system. It's easy to learn and easy to execute.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

I second that. KO is the simplest possible professional system. It's easy to learn and easy to execute.

thats what i keep hearing.. i got the book from my library and plan to read it, and i also got the speed count book, but i will just skim thru that as i know the speed count requires a lot of patience, a large spread, and a large bankroll (as do all crappy systems).. i need a counting system that is best for indexes, as i dont have the bankroll to vary my bet.. right now im using hi-lo and wonging in when the running count is positive, and i only use one index right now which is stand on 16 vs 10 when the running count is positive (i just started with counting, and not good with the true count yet)

 

[aslan]

thats what i keep hearing.. i got the book from my library and plan to read it, and i also got the speed count book, but i will just skim thru that as i know the speed count requires a lot of patience, a large spread, and a large bankroll (as do all crappy systems).. i need a counting system that is best for indexes, as i dont have the bankroll to vary my bet.. right now im using hi-lo and wonging in when the running count is positive, and i only use one index right now which is stand on 16 vs 10 when the running count is positive (i just started with counting, and not good with the true count yet)

Nothing could be speedier than KO. You'll be counting in your sleep before long. KO has 28 indices and half of them don't count if you're playing a shoe game (6 or 8 deck). The wong outs are at -32, -29, -22, and -17 for 1, 2, 3, and 4 decks played respectively for 8-deck games when the IRC is -28. The wong outs are -22, -17, and -12 for 1, 2, and 3 decks played respectively for 6-deck games when the IRC is -20. The suggested spread for 6 and 8 decks is 1 to 10, however I sometimes spread 1 to 8 with success. Spreading more than 1 to 10 requires more BR than I am willing to put up. I don't really care if they back me off in AC, although I'll be more concerned in LV where they can bar you.

 

[ChefJJ]

thats what i keep hearing.. i got the book from my library and plan to read it, and i also got the speed count book, but i will just skim thru that as i know the speed count requires a lot of patience, a large spread, and a large bankroll (as do all crappy systems).. i need a counting system that is best for indexes, as i dont have the bankroll to vary my bet.. right now im using hi-lo and wonging in when the running count is positive, and i only use one index right now which is stand on 16 vs 10 when the running count is positive (i just started with counting, and not good with the true count yet)

Just to announce up front...I'm not going to "insult" you:

I agree about KO being a solid system to learn, and one that can progress with you as you gain experience. I'd stay away from the Speed Count, as it is pretty much a sham (I think there's a thread on that one).

As far as varying your bet, you've gotta do it. That's a bigger potential advantage maker than the index plays, but they are important. I'd pay attention to the TC (true count) rather than running count to be wonging in...but if the TC is your problem, then an unbalanced count like KO plays right into that.

good luck

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Just to announce up front...I'm not going to "insult" you:

I agree about KO being a solid system to learn, and one that can progress with you as you gain experience. I'd stay away from the Speed Count, as it is pretty much a sham (I think there's a thread on that one).

As far as varying your bet, you've gotta do it. That's a bigger potential advantage maker than the index plays, but they are important. I'd pay attention to the TC (true count) rather than running count to be wonging in...but if the TC is your problem, then an unbalanced count like KO plays right into that.

good luck

a lot of times when i say "you" i dont mean that person personally, sometimes i just use it as an example for any1 else who wants to insult me.. the high ranked people on here generally are nice..

ya but you will get more hands in (i dont want to sit out more than 50% of the time) while still lowering the house edge if you wong in when the running count is 0+.. if you were playing $10 blackjack with a $1000 bankroll (this is my total bankroll, not just like for a year or a trip or something, i cant just up and get another $1000) would you vary your bets? the fluctuation can already go over $200 either way, so doing even a 1-4 spread would be bad.. i know im going to lose that $1000 eventually, but i dont want to lose it lightning quick.. so my goal is to play only when the running count is positive, and to use as many indexes as possible, although for right now im not that good with the TC so im just doing obvious ones like always stand on 16 vs 10 (since i will only be playing in positive running counts)..

 

[eps6724]

a although for right now im not that good with the TC so im just doing obvious ones like always stand on 16 vs 10 (since i will only be playing in positive running counts)..

You might want to consider one of the unbalanced counts, then, until you have complete mastery of converting. Plus, you might find that they work just as well as the others. KO has been mentioned, and a lot of people here play it sucessfully. I (and a number of others) have been using KISS III as described in Rezney's Blackjack Bluebook II. Similar to Snyder's Red7 It also has the added bonus of 'walking' you from KISS I through KISS III and a level 2 balanced count-Mentor. Plus, he explains a lot along the way, jsut in general terms about hw everything works and how it compares. (He uses KO and Hi-Lo when comparing systems).

I and a number of others HAVE found it easy to use. There are 21 indices, all but 3 are for + count plays.

Luck!

 

[ChefJJ]

ya but you will get more hands in (i dont want to sit out more than 50% of the time) while still lowering the house edge if you wong in when the running count is 0+.. if you were playing $10 blackjack with a $1000 bankroll (this is my total bankroll, not just like for a year or a trip or something, i cant just up and get another $1000) would you vary your bets? the fluctuation can already go over $200 either way, so doing even a 1-4 spread would be bad.. i know im going to lose that $1000 eventually, but i dont want to lose it lightning quick.. so my goal is to play only when the running count is positive, and to use as many indexes as possible, although for right now im not that good with the TC so im just doing obvious ones like always stand on 16 vs 10 (since i will only be playing in positive running counts)..

If you wong in and only play positive counts while only flat betting, I do not know if that will give you an edge over the house...perhaps someone could help with that math. But I would definitely advocate as much of a spread as you are willing to put out there. 1-3 is better than flat betting.

Second, the great thing about a system like KO is that a) you don't convert to the TC and b) there are 13 index plays that correspond to only 3 count levels...just as easy to memorize as basic strategy. There are some negatives to go with the positives, but that's life for sure.

good luck

 

[EyeHeartHalves]

Halves

Professional Blackjack by Stanford Wong. Learn it; live it; love it!

 

[sagefr0g]

If you wong in and only play positive counts while only flat betting, I do not know if that will give you an edge over the house...perhaps someone could help with that math. But I would definitely advocate as much of a spread as you are willing to put out there. 1-3 is better than flat betting.

Second, the great thing about a system like KO is that a) you don't convert to the TC and b) there are 13 index plays that correspond to only 3 count levels...just as easy to memorize as basic strategy. There are some negatives to go with the positives, but that's life for sure.

good luck

here is a sim for hi/lo i18 fab4 s17daslsr eight deck wonging in flat betting $5 with a $1000 bankroll

 

[Kasi]

if you were playing $10 blackjack with a $1000 bankroll (this is my total bankroll, not just like for a year or a trip or something, i cant just up and get another $1000) would you vary your bets? the fluctuation can already go over $200 either way, so doing even a 1-4 spread would be bad.... know im going to lose that $1000 eventually, but i ont want to lose it lightning quick

I don't mean to be smart-ass, believe it or not! lol, but if you are worried about losing the $1000 roll yet still know, or believe, you will eventually lose it, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are asking.

I don't know how many hands you are playing in a year at what game, but, if your goal is longevity do what you are doing.

If you want to vary bets, maybe when you have a really big RC, bet 2 units and if u win, drop back. But that's a progression system and I know your opinion of them.

Keep in mind, you could play forever by merely picking up one net betting unit every 3 hours or so, more hours if you are wonging out.

Since standing on 16 vs 10 in positive RC's is your only index play, you may want to explore just how likley it is you will lose how much in how long assuming only BS and flat-betting since that seems to me what you are basically playing. The exercise would do you good - put those math skills to work!

Would it make a difference to you that you will likely go broke in 6 months rather than a year?

Anyway, it's more or less what I do, ie make strategy plays based on a count,
vary my bet once in a while based on same, but mostly-flat-bet, but I have a pretty clear idea of my winning goals (usually break-even) and a bankroll that won't change my life if I lose it all on a trip.

Overall, I just don't know if you want to become an AP player with a goal of winning money or just have fun with the whole idea of it all.

If the former, stop playing, learn more, while figuring out how much bankroll you need.

If the latter, you're doing fine.

 

[sagefr0g]

....... if you were playing $10 blackjack with a $1000 bankroll (this is my total bankroll, not just like for a year or a trip or something, i cant just up and get another $1000) would you vary your bets? the fluctuation can already go over $200 either way, so doing even a 1-4 spread would be bad.. i know im going to lose that $1000 eventually, but i dont want to lose it lightning quick.. ....

you could break the grand up by a third. so that a trip bankroll for you would be about $300. just only risk that much per trip. if you lose it replenish it. well i'm asumming you could replenish $300 fairly quickly. maybe wong in or at least wong out agressively using a 1-4 spread. you might get lucky that way and build your bankroll.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

I don't mean to be smart-ass, believe it or not! lol, but if you are worried about losing the $1000 roll yet still know, or believe, you will eventually lose it, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are asking.

I don't know how many hands you are playing in a year at what game, but, if your goal is longevity do what you are doing.

If you want to vary bets, maybe when you have a really big RC, bet 2 units and if u win, drop back. But that's a progression system and I know your opinion of them.

Keep in mind, you could play forever by merely picking up one net betting unit every 3 hours or so, more hours if you are wonging out.

Since standing on 16 vs 10 in positive RC's is your only index play, you may want to explore just how likley it is you will lose how much in how long assuming only BS and flat-betting since that seems to me what you are basically playing. The exercise would do you good - put those math skills to work!

Would it make a difference to you that you will likely go broke in 6 months rather than a year?

Anyway, it's more or less what I do, ie make strategy plays based on a count,
vary my bet once in a while based on same, but mostly-flat-bet, but I have a pretty clear idea of my winning goals (usually break-even) and a bankroll that won't change my life if I lose it all on a trip.

Overall, I just don't know if you want to become an AP player with a goal of winning money or just have fun with the whole idea of it all.

If the former, stop playing, learn more, while figuring out how much bankroll you need.

If the latter, you're doing fine.

im just becoming an AP basically, and AP doesnt have to mean your a 1-10 spreader using 60 indices and a complex system making $10+ an hour.. imo, an AP is anybody doing something more than basic strategy, especially if they are reading up on blackjack stuff many hours a week, which is what i am doing.. some may say its when you have an advantage on the house, but technically, lowering the house edge is "an advantage" kind of.. anyways, im flat betting $10, playing ONLY when the RUNNING count is positive, and i will use up to 10 indices.. i have another thread about how hi-lo is horrible for indices, and that perhaps i should find another system that has a higher PE.. im also thinking that most of the simulations, and complex math that is already out there can be thrown out the window when comparing systems when your FLAT BETTING because the entire basis of card counting is varying your bets, therefor there is a good chance that most of the data out there is no good for my purpose (btw my goal is to break even while still betting the table minimum)

you could break the grand up by a third. so that a trip bankroll for you would be about $300. just only risk that much per trip. if you lose it replenish it. well i'm asumming you could replenish $300 fairly quickly. maybe wong in or at least wong out agressively using a 1-4 spread. you might get lucky that way and build your bankroll.

for simplicities sake, i will just say that i cannot emotionally handle losing $1000, and btw, i play about 5 hours a week, but i probably am actually playing about 2-3 hours a week due to wonging

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

here is a sim for hi/lo i18 fab4 s17daslsr eight deck wonging in flat betting $5 with a $1000 bankroll

could you run that sim for $10, 6 decks, S17, DAS, DA2, 3 splits (no surrender), wong in at TC of 0, 75% penetration (80 cards left), and $1000 bankroll please? thanks mr frog