Blackjack cardcounting books
- Thread starter vpearlkc
- Start date
zengrifter
Banned
Start w/ just one - Knockout BJ by vancura & Fuchs zgvpearlkc said:
All the good books
Go back to the main page on this site and click-on the sidebar "books and software", there you will find a collection of select books on counting, including Knockout Blackjack that Zengrifter recommends. All with a discription of their contents.
Good Luck
Go back to the main page on this site and click-on the sidebar "books and software", there you will find a collection of select books on counting, including Knockout Blackjack that Zengrifter recommends. All with a discription of their contents.
Good Luck
TimeKeeper
Well-Known Member
zengrifter I enjoy reading your posts here and wanted to know what your opinion is of Kevin Blackwood's count system in his book "Play Blackjack Like The Pros"? Perhaps you've read it... I've seen a few people recommend that "Knockout Blackjack". I've already got the Blackwood book. But I haven't quite got to the chapter on Card Counting.zengrifter said:
zengrifter
Banned
Serious counters read virtually every valid book on counting. And Blackwood's is valid... BUT don't learn HiOpt 1 or 2. Learn KO or in Blackbelt there are three that I can endorse - Red7, HiLoLite, or ZEN. I used HiOpt2 in the late 70s and early 80s but since the mid 80s I've used ZEN. zgTimeKeeper said:
Ps - Blackbelt is your next book. EVEN IF you go with the KO system.
TimeKeeper
Well-Known Member
Thanks, bigbjfan and zengrifter. "Blackbelt in Blackjack" is definitely the next book then.
Do any of you actually make $500 or more playing BJ a week? I'm seeing a lot of posts lately making it seem like you can't profit even if you know you're stuff.
For instance, even you yourself said "comp counting is more profitable than counting." And the Foxwoods thread I was told that I wouldn't be able to make $500 in a week unless I played for 48 hours. Ugh.
Do any of you actually make $500 or more playing BJ a week? I'm seeing a lot of posts lately making it seem like you can't profit even if you know you're stuff.
For instance, even you yourself said "comp counting is more profitable than counting." And the Foxwoods thread I was told that I wouldn't be able to make $500 in a week unless I played for 48 hours. Ugh.
zengrifter
Banned
Comp-counting could generate $100/hr in comp compared to $50/hr win-rate with counting, for the same relative time and BR.TimeKeeper said:
If you do everything right and have access to playable games then yes - conservatively, playing $5 units 48hrs = $500. A $10 unit would therefore yield $500 in half the time, etc. zg
E-town-guy
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I understand comp counting (which is why I'm going to order the book). But if you're comp counting and making $100/hr is any of that actual money or is it just free stuff? I'm also confused as to whether you're actually counting and spreading your bets while you're at the casino.
E-town-guy said:
Im also interested in knowing what exactly comp counting is. At a local casino I dont think I have earned more than 5 points from playing bj there
but i got way more points from slots (cover purposes), even though i play far more hours in bj (w/ players card) and probly havent played no more than 2 hrs on slots total.
zengrifter
Banned
Free stuff. You do spread, but not in accordance with the count - it only requires basic strategy. zgE-town-guy said:
E-town-guy
Well-Known Member
So if one makes a trip to Vegas do they spend a bit of time in one casino earning some free stuff like food and accomodations and then go to a few others to make actual money? Comp counting sounds good but I'm also interested in making actual money too.
zengrifter
Banned
It could be done that way. zg
comp counting
I thought I would give my opinion on comps and blackjack vs comps and video poker. Last year I lost $2078 playing $343,296 in vp. This amount of play earned $2102 in slot points, $1525 in bounceback and over $4000 in non cash comps. I guess the casino got tired of being nickel and dimed by advantage vp players so the pay schedules were reduced to unplayable levels on most of the machines. When this happened I decided to try BJ as a way to maintain my bounceback and generate some comps. This effort seems to have failed, after two and a half months away from vp my bounceback has been cut back allmost in half, and I would say that using BJ to play the comp game would take a huge bankroll with little chance of earning cash and not a great many comps. For this reason I have ordered Knockout Blackjack and Blackbelt in Blackjack, the two books most recommended by people in this forum, and am going to give up on comps and try for a little cash counting cards. Luckily there are $3 tables at my local casino so I should be able to get started with my $1500 bankroll after study and practice at home. Thanks for all the advice.
I thought I would give my opinion on comps and blackjack vs comps and video poker. Last year I lost $2078 playing $343,296 in vp. This amount of play earned $2102 in slot points, $1525 in bounceback and over $4000 in non cash comps. I guess the casino got tired of being nickel and dimed by advantage vp players so the pay schedules were reduced to unplayable levels on most of the machines. When this happened I decided to try BJ as a way to maintain my bounceback and generate some comps. This effort seems to have failed, after two and a half months away from vp my bounceback has been cut back allmost in half, and I would say that using BJ to play the comp game would take a huge bankroll with little chance of earning cash and not a great many comps. For this reason I have ordered Knockout Blackjack and Blackbelt in Blackjack, the two books most recommended by people in this forum, and am going to give up on comps and try for a little cash counting cards. Luckily there are $3 tables at my local casino so I should be able to get started with my $1500 bankroll after study and practice at home. Thanks for all the advice.
zengrifter
Banned
You didn't know the science of comp-counting at BJ - this is delineated in Rubin's Comp City. zgvpearlkc said:
I am not sure about the science of card counting but I am very familier with how the comp system works. The reason I think that BJ is a hard game to earn comps with is that the games theoretical win rate for the casino is so low. For example since I began playing BJ I started with $10 flat bets and a few days after each session would ask how I had been rated. On one occasion I was told I had been rated at $10 per hand for 1 & 3/4 hours with a theo of $9.00. Figuring that the casino is using an average of 60 hands an hour to rate play I must have, in the casinos eyes, played a little over 100 hands X $10 for about $1000 in action. Using these figures my theoretical loss rate seems to have been slightly less than 1%. If the casino is giving back 40% of theo in comps then I guess I would have earned $4 in comp value, but the casino does not write comps for less than $10. I have recieved two comps for BJ play, the first while playing $10 a hand over the course of a one night hotel stay, The first day I was rated at 2 & 3/4 hrs at $10 per hand, the second day, $30 per hand for 3/4 hr. The only reason I can figure for the $30 rating is that the pitboss needed more action then the $10 bets I was really making to justify the $10 comp I was issued. The second comp I was issued happened the same way. By this time I was playing $15 a hand and was rated at $25 a hand for 1 & 3/4 hrs to justify a $15 comp. These two occasions, when asking for comps, have been the only sessions that my play has been padded by the pitboss. As far as I can tell it would take $50 or greater flat bets to generate nice comps and I dont think I could ever be comfortable with this kind of action.
zengrifter
Banned
Comp-Counting in Theory
So comp counting involves a 1-10+ bet-spread. You make your top bet, say two hands of $125 2x when you start, the boss marks your tracking slip "$250" and walks away. Then you drop to 1 hand of $25, maybe even some $10 bets. Meanwhile you choose an almost full table so the number of hands per hour is reduced to about 60. And then you take a long bathroom break, returning a few moments before the boss takes his 15 minute rating. Moments before the boss is noting your bets you slam out 2 hands of $125 again and again he note "$250".
So while your true average bet is $25 with a true house edge of less than .5% (house theoretical of $10/hr), and your proper comp allotment should be $100 after 5 hrs, your comp-rating analysis shows average bets of $250 and a comp reward of $1000. zg
The essential element of "comp-counting" (I'm about to over-simplify here) is that the casino imputes a 2.5% edge until they suspect otherwise. And they give back 30-40% of this "theoretical" (as they call it) in comp (.75-1%).vpearlkc said:
So comp counting involves a 1-10+ bet-spread. You make your top bet, say two hands of $125 2x when you start, the boss marks your tracking slip "$250" and walks away. Then you drop to 1 hand of $25, maybe even some $10 bets. Meanwhile you choose an almost full table so the number of hands per hour is reduced to about 60. And then you take a long bathroom break, returning a few moments before the boss takes his 15 minute rating. Moments before the boss is noting your bets you slam out 2 hands of $125 again and again he note "$250".
So while your true average bet is $25 with a true house edge of less than .5% (house theoretical of $10/hr), and your proper comp allotment should be $100 after 5 hrs, your comp-rating analysis shows average bets of $250 and a comp reward of $1000. zg
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newyorkbear
Well-Known Member
I've read Mr Rubins book on Comp Counting and it is pretty entertaining.It tells how you can get treated as a hi-roller while playing on a mid-roller BR.
on my last trip to Vegas,I used some of his tactics(though not on the level he describes) and believe I got comped at a higher level than I would have without those techniques.
I think my favorite tactic he suggests is:while dining at the casino eatery on a comp,order a piece of cake to go and give it to the pitboss as a token of thanks.
on my last trip to Vegas,I used some of his tactics(though not on the level he describes) and believe I got comped at a higher level than I would have without those techniques.
I think my favorite tactic he suggests is:while dining at the casino eatery on a comp,order a piece of cake to go and give it to the pitboss as a token of thanks.
Senacchrib
Well-Known Member
Couple of questions...
Zen, you recommend KO, and blackbelt. I am just getting into counting, and I got Wong's Pro Blackjack. Is this a bad move for me? Also, I am not exactly sure what comp is. At the Casino I play at, there is a PlayersClub, and supposedly there are rewards, although I do not know what those rewards are(I believe its just vouchers for the Casino Store, Food, and lodgings). Is that what you are talking about?
Zen, you recommend KO, and blackbelt. I am just getting into counting, and I got Wong's Pro Blackjack. Is this a bad move for me? Also, I am not exactly sure what comp is. At the Casino I play at, there is a PlayersClub, and supposedly there are rewards, although I do not know what those rewards are(I believe its just vouchers for the Casino Store, Food, and lodgings). Is that what you are talking about?
zengrifter
Banned
Yes, the vouchers are comp. Wong's Pro BJ is a definitive text on counting... BUT its a bit dated as to tactics... AND it has TOO MANY CHARTS AND DIFFERENT SETS OF INDICES. A newbie will tend to be confused by it.Senacchrib said:
So its very good, but DON'T LEARN THE CHARTS - Learn KO, or in Blackbelt learn Red7 or HiLoLite (or ZEN) - make your decision after you've read all three. zg