Can u fold it?

[blackjacktilt]

$2 / $5 NL game

I have the button and $1200 in front of me. I'm looking at 3 limps and I raise to $35 with 4d,4s. Small blind folds, BB raises to $80, limpers fold, I call.
Flop: 2s, Jh, 4c :grin:
BB bets $100, I raise to $275 he calls
Turn: 9c
BB checks, I bet out $300, BB goes all in and I have him covered by about $100.
I tank :sad: and fold and say nice set of Jacks, I'm folding 4's.
He bets me $25 that I don't have 4's, and says if you show, I show.
I show my 4's, he almost shits himself, hands me a green chip and shows his jacks.
For the next hour he doesn't play a single hand, and leaves.
I have sat with this individual before, and know certain things about him.
So my question, can you fold this set?
I never normally fold middle set and the nine didn't scare me, his actions told me I was beat with top set. Expensive price knowledge is....

 

[Canceler]

For the next hour he doesn't play a single hand, and leaves.
I have sat with this individual before, and know certain things about him.

My guess is that he didn’t start playing this tightly just because he won that hand. So you knew he was tight, and you may have known he wouldn’t play this strongly without a very good hand.

So my question, can you fold this set?

No, but this is the kind of nasty situation that makes me glad I play limit. It wouldn’t have cost me nearly as much to call him.

 

[NightStalker]

no

$2 / $5 NL game

I have the button and $1200 in front of me. I'm looking at 3 limps and I raise to $35 with 4d,4s. Small blind folds, BB raises to $80, limpers fold, I call.
Flop: 2s, Jh, 4c :grin:
BB bets $100, I raise to $275 he calls
Turn: 9c
BB checks, I bet out $300, BB goes all in and I have him covered by about $100.
I tank :sad: and fold and say nice set of Jacks, I'm folding 4's.
He bets me $25 that I don't have 4's, and says if you show, I show.
I show my 4's, he almost shits himself, hands me a green chip and shows his jacks.
For the next hour he doesn't play a single hand, and leaves.
I have sat with this individual before, and know certain things about him.
So my question, can you fold this set?
I never normally fold middle set and the nine didn't scare me, his actions told me I was beat with top set. Expensive price knowledge is....

why would you bet more than half of your stack and then fold?

 

[Nynefingers]

I suck at poker, but it's going to be a very rare situation for me to fold that hand on that board getting 4:1.

I can't see being behind more than 80% of the time here. Maybe I'm wrong, but I pretty much call this every time. Doesn't mean it's the right play (really don't know if it is), but I don't think I'm going to get away from this hand.

 

[Sucker]

I suck at poker, but it's going to be a very rare situation for me to fold that hand on that board getting 4:1.
I can't see being behind more than 80% of the time here. Maybe I'm wrong, but I pretty much call this every time. Doesn't mean it's the right play (really don't know if it is), but I don't think I'm going to get away from this hand.

Of course it's wrong to fold this hand, except in very rare situations:
If you always or almost always play at the same poker room, you'll eventually find that there ARE players that will never, ever, ever go all in unless they have the stone cold nuts. Obviously the OP knows this.

why would you bet more than half of your stack and then fold?

He made a value bet of about 1/4 of the pot. Because of the way the hand had played out so far, and because of the OP's knowledge of the BB's habits, the range for this particular villian was almost certainly an overpair. He wanted to bet as much as he could get away with, but not so much as to cause villian to fold.

IMO; OP played the hand perfectly. If I have any criticism at all, it's that I'm not 100% sure that it was worth the $25 to show the hand. He may have given away too much information; not only to the villian, but also to the others at the table. I personally don't WANT others to know that I'm smart enough to make this play.

 

[tthree]

I would almost always make the call. I have played people who are predictable enough that I have made this fold correctly. Most good players mix it up enough to avoid predictability that I would have to call even if they are normally tight. Few are predictable enough to warrant folding.

 

[mjbballar23]

Terrible fold imo. You have the second nutz and the fact that he limped pre- flop weights him even more toward 22 than JJ and your getting too good of odds on the turn when he jams. Take your cooler like a man. Your being results oriented thinking your play is good.

 

[Sucker]

the fact that he limped pre- flop weights him even more toward 22 than JJ

He did NOT limp preflop - he THREE-bet it preflop. And the OP states that he knows "certain things" about this player. This type of player is more common than one might think. Also; I wouldn't exactly call a 43:1 shot "good odds on the turn". Well played by BJtilt!

 

[Gamblor]

Its possible he could of had AA and he was putting you on AJ or QQ.

I would be inclined not to fold, but it all depends on what you know about him, and what you think he knows about you, so hard to say if it was a good fold or not without this information.

I've folded a set with a potential straight and flush on the board on the river. Somebody bet into it and another person called, so I folded. Nobody had higher than a two pair, stupid PA players :cry:

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

He did NOT limp preflop - he THREE-bet it preflop. And the OP states that he knows "certain things" about this player. This type of player is more common than one might think. Also; I wouldn't exactly call a 43:1 shot "good odds on the turn". Well played by BJtilt!

No, he raised and was 3-bet by JJ. He called IP, ostensibly with some sort of set-mining angle, hit the damn set and then folded a monster hand after pot-committing himself in fear of exactly one particular hand that could beat him. Villain's range in that spot is waaaay wider than precisely JJ. You say that he ended up with over 50% of his stack in the pot because of the way that the hand played out, but if he was going to commit himself and then fold, he should have adjusted his bet sizes to avoid becoming committed.

In my opinion (and to be fair, I'm not a great poker player by several miles), this is a snap-call all day, every day. I'm absolutely never folding here unless I have a very specific and reliable read on the villain.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

I've folded a set with a potential straight and flush on the board on the river. Somebody bet into it and another person called, so I folded. Nobody had higher than a two pair, stupid PA players :cry:

Sure, folding middle set is a lot more reasonable in a multi-way pot with a straight and flush on board. But middle set on an otherwise dry board against a tight opponent with a range filled with all sorts of overpairs, bottom set, maybe even something dumb like two-pair or AJ... no way can (or should) that hand get mucked.

 

[Gamblor]

Sure, folding middle set is a lot more reasonable in a multi-way pot with a straight and flush on board. But middle set on an otherwise dry board against a tight opponent with a range filled with all sorts of overpairs, bottom set, maybe even something dumb like two-pair or AJ... no way can (or should) that hand get mucked.

Agreed, just brought it up to show how stupid PA players are, beating a poker genius such as myslef :grin:

And as I mentioned, agreed, I would be inclined not to fold the set of 44s against possible JJs, unless I had a read saying otherwise. A likely scenario I mentioned is that the villain had AA (or KK) and was putting blackjacktilt on AJ or QQ. All depends on how aggressive the villain is, what table image of blackjacktilt is, etc.,

 

[Automatic Monkey]

$2 / $5 NL game

I have the button and $1200 in front of me. I'm looking at 3 limps and I raise to $35 with 4d,4s....

I have a problem right there.

But I'm not a poker expert.

 

[Gamblor]

I have a problem right there.

But I'm not a poker expert.

Yeah not sure what the situation was where blackjacktilt would raise 44 with 3 limpers. I wouldn't do it. I have raised with 44 with no limpers, its a much better time to do it.

 

[MangoJ]

I have a problem right there.

But I'm not a poker expert.

[ploppymode]
I guess by raising preflop you try to get the limpers to fold to reduce the numbers of hands you are up against. If they don't fold you want at least some money in the pot, when you hit your set.
[/ploppymode]

 

[alwayssplitaces]

Unless I had a read that he was very tight and doesn't bluff much, I would have not folded. Only 1 hand in villain's raising range could beat you, JJ. He could have had AA-JJ, AQ+ if he's tight and made that preflop 3-bet to isolate you. Postflop, he made a c-bet, you raised, and he continued to show strength. I'd narrow it down to AA-JJ. The chance he had jacks is slightly lower because on the J on the board. He'd play aces, kings, or queens the same way he'd play his set of jacks.

 

[NightStalker]

His total bet

Of course it's wrong to fold this hand, except in very rare situations:
If you always or almost always play at the same poker room, you'll eventually find that there ARE players that will never, ever, ever go all in unless they have the stone cold nuts. Obviously the OP knows this.



He made a value bet of about 1/4 of the pot. Because of the way the hand had played out so far, and because of the OP's knowledge of the BB's habits, the range for this particular villian was almost certainly an overpair. He wanted to bet as much as he could get away with, but not so much as to cause villian to fold.

IMO; OP played the hand perfectly. If I have any criticism at all, it's that I'm not 100% sure that it was worth the $25 to show the hand. He may have given away too much information; not only to the villian, but also to the others at the table. I personally don't WANT others to know that I'm smart enough to make this play.

=80+275+300 = 655
Effective stack size = 1100..
Committing 60% of the chips and then mucking is not a great play.
Villain can easily have an overpair..

 

[tthree]

No, he raised and was 3-bet by JJ. He called IP, ostensibly with some sort of set-mining angle, hit the damn set and then folded a monster hand after pot-committing himself in fear of exactly one particular hand that could beat him. Villain's range in that spot is waaaay wider than precisely JJ. You say that he ended up with over 50% of his stack in the pot because of the way that the hand played out, but if he was going to commit himself and then fold, he should have adjusted his bet sizes to avoid becoming committed.

In my opinion (and to be fair, I'm not a great poker player by several miles), this is a snap-call all day, every day. I'm absolutely never folding here unless I have a very specific and reliable read on the villain.

x2

 

[The Chaperone]

Just an insanely bad fold.

You need to quit playing now.

You are either a terrible player or your reads are so good that you should be playing the big game at Bellagio. I'm guessing it's the former not the latter

FWIW, I don't like the pre-flop play much either. I prolly call and fold to the BB's raise. Much cheaper than donking off 70% of my stack to him

 

[blackjacktilt]

why would you bet more than half of your stack and then fold?

Because I knew I was beat and still had about $600 left in a juicy game. I never got back up to $1200, but left with around $900 for a $400 day.