card counting in the 21st century

[lucfayt13]

hi all, i'm an asian newbie to gambling and blackjack. i've a question in mind...does card counting still works now in the 21st century in year 2007 going to be 2008? what are the factors that influence card counting? and though the casinoes now had been implementing ways and rules to the disadvantage of card counters, are there still much chance left for us? can we still make a living through card counting now? i sincerely hope that experts in this field can answer me. thanks and good luck to all!

 

[toastblows]

depends on your casino's gaming rules, tactics, etc. Its a broad subject, but its highly unlikely youll make a "living" doing it. Most counters just use it for supplementing their lifestyle :cool2: . Prove me wrong though...i love winning stories! :grin:

 

[lucfayt13]

thanks a lot toastblows! haha i would love to do so as in prove u wrong but unfortunately i'm just a newbie :cry: whose been exposed to card counting in just 1 week. howerver doing research and information on card counting. talking about the table rules as u said, how about these rule?? -->
1)6deck shoe with penetration of 50%? or 75%? can't remember clearly though,
2)and dealer stands on soft 17,
3)max 3 split hands,
4)dbl only on 9,10,11.
5)early surrender allowed,
6)and player min value must be 12 if not must hit, which means cannot stand on 11.
7)even money allowed.
8)and finally blackjack pays 1 to 2!

can i still card count with these kinds of table rules? is it effective? unfortunately i do not know of any casinoes that still offers the single or double deck BJ like the olden times now:cry:

 

[toastblows]

thanks a lot toastblows! haha i would love to do so as in prove u wrong but unfortunately i'm just a newbie :cry: whose been exposed to card counting in just 1 week. howerver doing research and information on card counting. talking about the table rules as u said, how about these rule?? -->
1)6deck shoe with penetration of 50%? or 75%? can't remember clearly though,
2)and dealer stands on soft 17,
3)max 3 split hands,
4)dbl only on 9,10,11.
5)early surrender allowed,
6)and player min value must be 12 if not must hit, which means cannot stand on 11.
7)even money allowed.
8)and finally blackjack pays 1 to 2!

can i still card count with these kinds of table rules? is it effective? unfortunately i do not know of any casinoes that still offers the single or double deck BJ like the olden times now:cry:

Well in my experience in the United States, Ill go down your list and give my opinion, doesnt mean its right, just my opinion.

1)6deck shoe with penetration of 50%? or 75%? can't remember clearly though,

75% is decent, 50% isnt great.

2)and dealer stands on soft 17,

This is debatable in my opinion. I like this personally and its good according to stats, but i have mostly played at places that hit on soft 17 and had little affect on my overall play personally.

3)max 3 split hands,

Seems to be the norm...4 max maybe is the best i have played.

4)dbl only on 9,10,11.

This is terrible, major house advantage

5)early surrender allowed,

I dont play surrender tables locally.

6)and player min value must be 12 if not must hit, which means cannot stand on 11.

This is an obvious card counting preventace....making you hit if you think the dealer can bust that is. then again, last time i stood on a 6 facing a dealer 5...i was banned for life :laugh:

7)even money allowed.

This is good. Single deck 6:5 games in Vegas suck becuase this is not allowed.

8)and finally blackjack pays 1 to 2!

1 to 2 is bad, 2 to 1 is very very nice. Check on this. In the US a 6 deck game is pretty standard at 3 to 2 pay off.


Again, do any of these stop you from counting....no. You can count anything, they just make your overall losing occur slower or faster unless you play the deck in your favor. Good Luck :cool2:

 

[mdlbj]

Looks like pretty bad rules. May want to add a travel expense to your BJ career.

 

[bj bob]

Come again?

thanks a lot toastblows! haha i would love to do so as in prove u wrong but unfortunately i'm just a newbie :cry: whose been exposed to card counting in just 1 week. howerver doing research and information on card counting. talking about the table rules as u said, how about these rule?? -->
1)6deck shoe with penetration of 50%? or 75%? can't remember clearly though,
2)and dealer stands on soft 17,
3)max 3 split hands,
4)dbl only on 9,10,11.
5)early surrender allowed,
6)and player min value must be 12 if not must hit, which means cannot stand on 11.
7)even money allowed.
8)and finally blackjack pays 1 to 2!

can i still card count with these kinds of table rules? is it effective? unfortunately i do not know of any casinoes that still offers the single or double deck BJ like the olden times now:cry:

Some of the rules you quoted do not make sense, for example:
1) There is a HUGE difference between 50 and 75% penetration. Make sure you observe a shoe and count every card that is dealt, then you can translate that number properly.
4) Double on 9. Although not the best is does not negate a winnable game.
5) Early? surrender. If this is in fact the case, you probably have an overall winner here. Just make sure you know the definition of term. Does the dealer offer surrender prior to checking his hole card even with an ace up?
6) If this "11" rule applies only to hard totals up to eleven, then it is moot anyway since no valid BJ play calls for standing on any hard total of 11 or less. If this means soft totals than this affects too many valuable plays. Better check this one out further.
8) This one has me baffled. 1:2 means that for a $10 original bet, the house pays you only $5 for a BJ. If that were the case I would simply declare it an eleven and either hit or double down, depending on the count. If you are talking about 2:1 on the other hand, then you have, along with ES one kick-ass game regardless of the penetration.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

hi all, i'm an asian newbie to gambling and blackjack. i've a question in mind...does card counting still works now in the 21st century in year 2007 going to be 2008? what are the factors that influence card counting? and though the casinoes now had been implementing ways and rules to the disadvantage of card counters, are there still much chance left for us? can we still make a living through card counting now? i sincerely hope that experts in this field can answer me. thanks and good luck to all!

everything you said is confusing..

blackjack is countable in 2008, but not in 2009, but then again in 2010, and it will be sweet in the 27th century, but the 28th century will be bad

 

[lucfayt13]

Looks like pretty bad rules. May want to add a travel expense to your BJ career.

hi all thanks for the opinions and advice given. by the way,mdlbj, you claim that looks like pretty bad rules,can u elaborate? which part is the worse?

and for bj bob, i've copied the explanation from the website of the particular casino that i'll be visiting--> Surrender
You may "Surrender" to the House by giving half of your bet, provided the House's first card is not an Ace. All decisions to "Surrender" shall be made immediately after the initial 2 cards are dealt to you.

that's regarding the surrender part. and by the way, i claim that blackjack pays 1 to 2, that's my error. sorry. i was trying to say blackjack pays 2 to 1. however i really doubt so because the website self contradict. there's this picture of the blackjack table showing BJ pays 2 to 1.but the bottom part of the website says paying BJ 3 to 2. i think it's most probably 3 to 2.

And sadly the penetration part i could not find out at this moment until i visit the casino in october. the 50% or 75% penetration was what i remembered when i was there at the casino about 2 weeks ago.

and there's another thing i forget to add that is: dbl after split is allowed. i summarize the rules again: -->
1)6deck shoe with penetration of 50%? or 75%? at the moment still could not find out
2)and dealer stands on soft 17,
3)max 3 split hands,
4)dbl only on 9,10,11.
5)early surrender allowed,
6)dbl after split allowed but same rules apply, only on 9,10,11
7)even money allowed.
8)and finally blackjack pays 2 to 3

so how are these rules favourable or not favourable to a counter?

and for silent bob, u said:blackjack is countable in 2008, but not in 2009, but then again in 2010, and it will be sweet in the 27th century, but the 28th century will be bad

what do u mean by that? are u hinting on something or trying to convey any hidden msg?? sorry i'm just an average guy with low iq or in fact worse than an average guy, maybe a bit stupid haha. and u said everything i said was confusing. u may be right.so i just simplify my question,which is:
can we still do card counting now? my definition of able to "do" card counting is able to make money from it. will it still be possible? just like those legends Dominic O'Brien , Ken Uston ,Wong and many others..

anyway i've something to discuss outside of BJ but is still in the gambling world. that is Roulette... i'm aware that skilled roulette dealers can get the particular number they want but most at best, gets the particular sector. truely skilled roulette dearlers can get their number dead on. though not 100% but at least 50% of the time.
thus i've this thinking: since roulette dealers can aqquire this skill overtime, how about us? can we too? i'm not talking about we, being able to spin the ball and let it land in the particular number we want. i'm saying can we aqquire the skill to predict where the number will land exactly or at least which sector of the wheel after watching countless of spins?

i've read before a book about roulette saying there's this guy who stands at the roulette wheel for at least 8 hours a day. in 3 months he is able to roughly predict the sector where the ball lands. in 6 months he started betting and won most of the time. and in 1 year he quit, due to too much attention from the casino. however he had won an enormous amt of money.

well, when i read the book, i was only half-believing. till now i'm still not sure. therefore i seek for your comments. what do u think about this? do u think it's possible??

 

[shadroch]

1)6deck shoe with penetration of 50%? or 75%? at the moment still could not find out
Six Decks is not good. 75% penetraion is okay,50% is bad.
2)and dealer stands on soft 17,
Very Good
3)max 3 split hands,
Not Good,but not that important
4)dbl only on 9,10,11.
BAD..BAD..BAD
5)early surrender allowed,
What you describe is late surrender,not early surrender. Good
6)dbl after split allowed but same rules apply, only on 9,10,11
Good on the DAS,bad on the restrictions.
7)even money allowed.
Good
8)and finally blackjack pays 2 to 3
Good

so how are these rules favourable or not favourable to a counter?
Game is mediocre,at best.

 

[EmeraldCityBJ]

I'll take a stab at the rules:

1)6deck shoe with penetration of 50%? or 75%? at the moment still could not find out
This would be the most important thing for you to figure out. Penetration has a bigger impact on how much money can be made than almost any other rule listed. If penetration is 50%, I would never even consider playing the game. In fact, for 6D, 75% is typically the worst penetration I'm willing to play.

2)and dealer stands on soft 17,
This is preferred to the dealer hitting soft 17. It's also getting harder and harder to find such a game.

3)max 3 split hands,
Does this mean split three times for four hands max, or split two times for three hands max? Either way, it doesn't make much difference, although getting to split more times is better.

4)dbl only on 9,10,11.
This is bad - especially for a shoe game. However, it's tolerable if the other rules and/or penetration are good.

5)early surrender allowed,
The rules you posted suggest that you may early surrender if the dealer shows a ten (meaning you can surrender before they check their hole card for an ace), but if the ace is the up card, only late surrender is offered (after they check the hole card). Any form of early surrender is better than late surrender, but I'm less familiar with how favorable this rule is since I've never seen or played it.

6)dbl after split allowed but same rules apply, only on 9,10,11
The ability to double after split is always preferred to not having the option, but it's of limited value in this game because of the 9/10/11 restriction.

7)even money allowed.
I don't know what is meant by this. The only time I've ever heard of "even money" being taken is when you're dealt a blackjack and the dealer is showing an ace. Taking "even money" at this point is the equivalent of buying insurance. Basic strategy dictates that you never buy insurance or take "even money". Having the opportunity to take insurance/even money during high counts with big bets is beneficial to the card counter. I've never seen a BJ game where insurance is not offered since the majority of the time, it's a sucker bet.

8)and finally blackjack pays 2 to 3
I think you meant to say BJ pays 3:2. This is standard, and if changed, it has a huge impact on the house edge. For example, if it's changed to 6:5 (as is the case for most Vegas single-deck games), it adds almost 1.5% to the house edge. If it's changed to pay 2:1, most games shift from a house edge of around 0.5% to a player edge of around 2%.