Card counting team article

Brutus

Well-Known Member
#2
Mr. S and his friends agreed to let a reporter observe two of their outings on the condition that they be identified only by an initial.
i dont think they should have stated their ages, where they play, or their cover habits. that could come back to bite them.
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#4
rookie789 said:
Maybe their ages, where they play and cover habits are purposely incorrect in the article which is great cover.
I'd guess they're toast unless maybe quoting the President of Foxwoods was a red herring.

I got a kick out of his concern for the patrons "Our position is that card counters disrupt the fun and excitement of other people playing the game,” said John A. O’Brien, the president of Foxwoods. Apparently losing money doesn't bother him lol.

Interesting the reporter first met them at Aponte's school and pinpointed the time? They paid $5K or more?

Anyway, that same reporter has quoted O'Brien in other articles. Apparently they have a relationship. They're probably looking for the reporter on facial-recognition video as we speak lol. You know, so the other patrons' fun isn't disrupted.

You think the players were paid for the article or was it just an ego-thing do u think? What did they think the upside could possibly be to end up in the NY Times?

Maybe it just started out as an article on Blackjack Institute since that's where the reporter met them and then he stumbled across a bunch of possibly not-so-swift guys??

Anybody actually think they are not toast?
 

mjbballar23

Well-Known Member
#6
article

unless these guys mentioned in the article were paid thousands to do an article about them, id say they must be out of there god damn mind. Especially since they are still playing and to even mention the casino you play at it is crazy. If these guys were lying about which casino they play at them they should be alright but i dont get the feeling that they were making it up about playing at Foxwoods since they were smart enough to covered up their identities. And with some of the scandals about lying in newspapers and other media, i highly doubt this story bends the truth much. If everything from the article is true, this team is as good as gone. All Foxwoods has to do is look for a guy jumping into shoes and betting 200-600 per hand, or the pit boss that made that lady move over might remember who these guys were.

The President of Foxwoods did have a hilarious comment about his stance on counters. "It disrupts the fun for everyone else." Hahahaha trying not to sound greedy. Im surprised he didnt mention something about counters screwing up the flow of the cards haha.
 

Bojack1

Well-Known Member
#7
I have met these guys, as far as I know, I think the dog and pony show they gave the press might have worked well for their true cover. They seem a bit smarter then first glance might tell.
 
#8
Kasi said:
Anybody actually think they are not toast?
I think they're idiots. Legitimate players would neither play like that nor spew to the New York Times about their activities. If anybody who played with me discussed it openly like that, it would be the last time they ever played with me.

Last time somebody shot off their mouths to the Hartford Courant about counting and Mohegan had a purge of suspected AP's, we lost comps, and pen cut back to 2.5 decks, all so somebody could feel like a big shot in front of a reporter. A casino exec sees the article, screws the game over so he can tell his boss "Look what we did, we got rid of these counters." He gets a pat on the back from a fake Indian and we get one less good game to play.
 

Brutus

Well-Known Member
#10
who benefits from this kind of publicity?

the community of advantage players? no

the egos of those interviewed? yes

the blackjack institute? yes

My opinion is that any publicity, (unless it claims that no advantage is available given the lousy playing conditions, or similar) only hurts the rest who want to play. and fellas, its only gonna get worse once that movie comes out.
so, applaud all ya want. will you still approve once the standard of pen is reduced to 50%?

its like Ken Uston all over again. too much attention and glamorizing of the game.
 
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Bojack1

Well-Known Member
#11
Hey you know what, I would relax everybody. Though I will agree this article doesn't do anything to help the state of affairs for AP's, I think the damage it does is not quite what some are thinking. Lets get a few things straight here. Every so often there are news articles or TV shows depicting AP's and things dealing with them. Good or bad its been that way for years. This website's forum and the info thats available here could quite have possibly educated many a casino personnel far more than a rogue article on some part time counters. Hell, if this forum has been good enough to educate newbies into competent player status, and the consensus paranoia is that of what is said here is monitered by the powers that be, then this is like an ongoing bulletin board for how to identify and thwart counters to the casino. I don't think that is fully the case, nor do I think a newspaper article will change the game as we know it.

Play the game long enough and you will realize it is cyclic. There are ups and downs in game conditions all the time. Sometimes it may be due to game glamourization, or unwanted publicity. Other times it may be due to the building of new competitive venues, labor disputes and vast employee turnover, economic crunches in general. These are just a few things that can change the way a game is set up. More times than not it is not permanent, its just how things are.

Hey I was one of the few who said I was not looking foward to this movie coming out when it was dicussed here a few months back. But you know what, it is, so what? We deal with it. Its part of the cycle of good and bad. I would be willing to bet there are few to none of the people posting on this board who didn't learn how to count cards from some form of public accessed info. Whether it be books or internet, its all public knowledge. So don't for a second believe that you know more than those that you are trying to fool. Any secrets of the game will stay that way until you figure them out yourselves, or are lucky enough to find someone who will let you in on them.

In the meantime for one reason or another there will be people doing newspaper articles, documantaries, movies, and even websites like what we have here. Its not great for business, but its part of it all the same. So the next time you are spouting a message about how the bad penetration is ruining the game, or even worse proclaim how good the game is by giving specifics, just know maybe it is you that has just changed the game as well.

I'm not sure if this article will hurt these guys too much, it might, I doubt it knowing a little bit about them. But I'm very sure its not going to effect you Brutus out in AZ, or most others in different areas. It might effect you AM, in your backyard casino, but then again, you've been raving about your conditions over there for as long as you've been on this site, if it hasn't happened yet maybe it won't now. Even if it does, it wont be forever. This is a long term game, a few knuckleheads can't hurt it whether it be playing a hand wrong that hurts you, or spouting off to a reporter.
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#12
Trust me, these guys are definitely not toast. I’ll agree that the article was an unfortunate occurrence for them, but I know it’s not going to slow down their overall progress at all. As far as Foxwoods, they’ll get a little more suspicious of big players but I don’t think the conditions will change. They’ll probably 86 some poor ploppy (the first pool cleaner they see) and think that the place is safe again.

-Sonny-
 
#13
Sonny said:
Trust me, these guys are definitely not toast. I’ll agree that the article was an unfortunate occurrence for them, but I know it’s not going to slow down their overall progress at all. As far as Foxwoods, they’ll get a little more suspicious of big players but I don’t think the conditions will change. They’ll probably 86 some poor ploppy (the first pool cleaner they see) and think that the place is safe again.

-Sonny-
The problem is this is a place that has generally ignored counters on their 8D games all throughout their history due to their acceptance of a certain popular myth. Now any clown looking to ingratiate himself to their management can walk around waving this New York Times article offering goodies like CSM's and 6:5 tables. They're already planning to go RFID, and with their upcoming unionization they will probably be perfectly happy to punish their dealers with CSM's too. With the major changes going on there this is a dangerous time to mess with them, and even I have been limiting my play there until some things settle out.

At least by talking about favorable conditions here, you give other AP's a chance to go exploit them. And Uston drew attention to the game but gave us all a lot more in return. Mohegan has never been the same since the Courant article. I'd hate to see another game go the same way. But there's some benefit I guess, I'm sure a few dozen suckers are now out there buying pool cleaner uniforms and and signing up for card counting seminars.
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#14
Automatic Monkey said:
With the major changes going on there this is a dangerous time to mess with them, and even I have been limiting my play there until some things settle out.
How noble of you. Kind of you to save the games for the rest of us. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

RJT.
 
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mdlbj

Well-Known Member
#15
its only gonna get worse once that movie comes out.
MGM is making the movie. I think it takes a select few to do what the guys are doing. The casinos know that so in turn, this article will have zero impact on AP, even at Foxwoods.

One article can not have as much impact on casinos as this forum does. Or the loads of books videos software there is out there.

I know of these guys, and they are making it happen. It is still possible.
 

mdlbj

Well-Known Member
#18
mjbballar23 said:
it will be interesting to see if any changes are made at Foxwoods as a result of this article...
We pulled a few k out of Foxwoods 4 months ago.

These guys are structured to be in it for the long run. There is no so called box so stop thinking. I love to see this kind of stuff in the main stream media.
 
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