Thank you ! I agree it is not a lot of money and I've lost more before It was just the way the whole thing went down . The pit boss kept watching me and asking questions when I was winning . He was making comments about my play like when I doubled an Ace,3 against a 5 . Then the way he redirected me to the table . Plus they were closing the pit down and what better way to get there take up at the end of the night . The whole thing made me feel cheated .
Casino cheating ?
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Thank you ! I agree it is not a lot of money and I've lost more before It was just the way the whole thing went down . The pit boss kept watching me and asking questions when I was winning . He was making comments about my play like when I doubled an Ace,3 against a 5 . Then the way he redirected me to the table . Plus they were closing the pit down and what better way to get there take up at the end of the night . The whole thing made me feel cheated .
Just how much do you think a multi-billion dollar business would have to pay a guy to both cheat you out of $500 AND keep quiet about it?
I don't know 200,000 a year
They could still take faces out of the deck and replace them with 4's & 5's . I didn't know anything about mechanics until today.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
I don't know 200,000 a year
They don't. I've been there plenty of times when they spread the cards, and I have never seen a card leave the table. Pretty much every counter in the East has played Foxwoods and if there was a cheating problem at blackjack it would be well-known by now. You are more likely to be ripped off by a fellow patron there than by the house.
The only place I've seen cheating in a casino is at the good old Cal-Neva in Reno which is another rite of passage for AP's. It took the form of dealers lying to players about rules. One time he told a player that if you double on a soft hand, the ace always counts as 11 and you can bust. Another time he told me he has the option of hitting or standing on soft 17 depending on whether he has beaten the player. Only at the Cal-Neva!
Mid-West Majestic Star Cheated me...
Don Barten is a whore. While playing there last year they did not plug the cut cards. This may not be cheating, but it's the only casino I've played in that did not plug the cut cards. In addition, at same table he had a shill playing and "cutting the cards." I don't mind the use of shills but when they talk and "cut" cards it pisses me off. How do I know it was a shill. Well, he bought in with twenty franklins and was playing two hands for $100 and tipping dealer twice for $100. When the shill busted the dealer put the hundred in the chip tray. In addition, he actually told the shill where to place the cut card. He's a whore and my hometown (Pittsburgh) just awarded him the stand alone casino license.
Don Barten is a whore. While playing there last year they did not plug the cut cards. This may not be cheating, but it's the only casino I've played in that did not plug the cut cards. In addition, at same table he had a shill playing and "cutting the cards." I don't mind the use of shills but when they talk and "cut" cards it pisses me off. How do I know it was a shill. Well, he bought in with twenty franklins and was playing two hands for $100 and tipping dealer twice for $100. When the shill busted the dealer put the hundred in the chip tray. In addition, he actually told the shill where to place the cut card. He's a whore and my hometown (Pittsburgh) just awarded him the stand alone casino license.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Well, if you say so...
Although blackjack cheating does exist in US casinos, it is rare, and I believe the last two posters are deceiving themselves about the nature and extent of cheating. If you are going to find cheating, it is going to be either in the form of 1) fake shoes, loaded with low cards and high cards missing. You can be sure this is not happening if you see the cards spread. 2) holdout shoes, specially designed equipment to allow the dealer to second deal. This is very rare, and probably doesn't exist in a legal game, and 3) bottom-dealing or second-dealing dealers in pitch games. If you ever encounter cheating chances are this is what it will be. There is no such thing as cheating with shills or "not plugging the discards." Please, give me a list of all the casino shuffles that don't use a plug, I'll pay them all a visit.
Although blackjack cheating does exist in US casinos, it is rare, and I believe the last two posters are deceiving themselves about the nature and extent of cheating. If you are going to find cheating, it is going to be either in the form of 1) fake shoes, loaded with low cards and high cards missing. You can be sure this is not happening if you see the cards spread. 2) holdout shoes, specially designed equipment to allow the dealer to second deal. This is very rare, and probably doesn't exist in a legal game, and 3) bottom-dealing or second-dealing dealers in pitch games. If you ever encounter cheating chances are this is what it will be. There is no such thing as cheating with shills or "not plugging the discards." Please, give me a list of all the casino shuffles that don't use a plug, I'll pay them all a visit.
AM, i have to go with you on that one. When they don't plug the cut-offs, you've got a gold mine. Even better if it's a one-pass......
I would also agree that cheating in any major casino today is almost - if not totally - non-existant. It's too much of a risk to gamble your licence over one winning player and the casino's know more about why they shouldn't gamble than anyone else other than advantage players.
RJT.
I would also agree that cheating in any major casino today is almost - if not totally - non-existant. It's too much of a risk to gamble your licence over one winning player and the casino's know more about why they shouldn't gamble than anyone else other than advantage players.
RJT.
How do I know it was a shill. Well, he bought in with twenty franklins and was playing two hands for $100 and tipping dealer twice for $100. When the shill busted the dealer put the hundred in the chip tray.
Where else would he put a losing toke?Losing tokes go to the house,winning tokes go to the dealer.
Where else would he put a losing toke?Losing tokes go to the house,winning tokes go to the dealer.
ihate17
Well-Known Member
variation and cheating
Been doing this thing about thirty years and I have encountered cheating in casinos.
In Eastern Europe a few years back, the short shoe was fairly well known. A few aces and faces removed and replaced by a few extra 5's.
Same was done by a California Indian casino when it first opened.
Mechanics in pitch games years ago in Nevada.
At the same time I have had multiple 20 hand plus losing streaks on honest games. A couple of times, same dealer, same table I get it all back a few shoes later. The swings of this game are tremendous and a negative swing will make a reasonable person think cheating.
Shoe games that spread the cards especially in a place like Foxwoods are not cheating you out of $500 or $50,000, but I can understand the feelings.
ihate17
Been doing this thing about thirty years and I have encountered cheating in casinos.
In Eastern Europe a few years back, the short shoe was fairly well known. A few aces and faces removed and replaced by a few extra 5's.
Same was done by a California Indian casino when it first opened.
Mechanics in pitch games years ago in Nevada.
At the same time I have had multiple 20 hand plus losing streaks on honest games. A couple of times, same dealer, same table I get it all back a few shoes later. The swings of this game are tremendous and a negative swing will make a reasonable person think cheating.
Shoe games that spread the cards especially in a place like Foxwoods are not cheating you out of $500 or $50,000, but I can understand the feelings.
ihate17
IH17, that doesn't totally surprise me. Cheating, especially dealer/mechanics dealing 2nds/3rds and even 4ths, while not completly common, happend often enough to be a worry.
And in honesty as gambling isn't as big a culture in Europe and in some areas of Europe they don't have as tight controls, you are more likely to encounter some form of illigitimate game going on. I've heard more than one story of shoted decks being used in several French casinos within the last 10 years, so when you are playing - especially the smaller joints - over here, you have to keep your eyes open.
RJT.
And in honesty as gambling isn't as big a culture in Europe and in some areas of Europe they don't have as tight controls, you are more likely to encounter some form of illigitimate game going on. I've heard more than one story of shoted decks being used in several French casinos within the last 10 years, so when you are playing - especially the smaller joints - over here, you have to keep your eyes open.
RJT.
Jim,
You can at any point tell the pit boss that you would like to see the cards spread. As far as i'm aware, the casino is obliged to comply with that request and while that doesn't say they will, i think in most cases you'll find that the cards will be laid out for you.
RJT.
You can at any point tell the pit boss that you would like to see the cards spread. As far as i'm aware, the casino is obliged to comply with that request and while that doesn't say they will, i think in most cases you'll find that the cards will be laid out for you.
RJT.
Spreading Deck
I find it hard to believe that a casino would spread at the request of player. Don't get me wrong, I believe what was posted about this request, but I just don't think they will spread at the request of every poppy or losing player thinking they are being cheated. I sure would have requested a recount at Don Barten's Majestic Star in the mid-west. Hell, it would shut the table down for at least 20 minutes if not longer.
I find it hard to believe that a casino would spread at the request of player. Don't get me wrong, I believe what was posted about this request, but I just don't think they will spread at the request of every poppy or losing player thinking they are being cheated. I sure would have requested a recount at Don Barten's Majestic Star in the mid-west. Hell, it would shut the table down for at least 20 minutes if not longer.
Spill your drink on the cards then they have to replace them.
By the way-its very hard to "accidently" spill a drink without it looking intentional.Coronas work best.Simply try inserting the lemon while using only one hand,as your cards are in the other hand.But it doesn't spill as much as a wide glass drink does. Mostly empty styrofoam coffe cups are easy to knock over.
By the way-its very hard to "accidently" spill a drink without it looking intentional.Coronas work best.Simply try inserting the lemon while using only one hand,as your cards are in the other hand.But it doesn't spill as much as a wide glass drink does. Mostly empty styrofoam coffe cups are easy to knock over.
ihate17
Well-Known Member
Casinos that never spread the cards?
I know an Indian Casino in California that never spreads the cards. When changing cards the pit comes with a new preshuffled stack and they are placed in the automatic shuffler. I have counted down enough shoes there to be confident that they do not cheat but still think that this is a case of greed and stupidity.
They are greedy because they do not want to have 10 minutes of downtime once a day when they change out their 6 deck shoes. The casino makes no money while cards are being spread but I have witnessed and know people who will not step foot in their casino because they are suspicious of this lack of openness. They create mistrust and I believe that costs them multiples of what they make by never spreading. They are not cheating so why let a number of people think they are?
ihate17
I know an Indian Casino in California that never spreads the cards. When changing cards the pit comes with a new preshuffled stack and they are placed in the automatic shuffler. I have counted down enough shoes there to be confident that they do not cheat but still think that this is a case of greed and stupidity.
They are greedy because they do not want to have 10 minutes of downtime once a day when they change out their 6 deck shoes. The casino makes no money while cards are being spread but I have witnessed and know people who will not step foot in their casino because they are suspicious of this lack of openness. They create mistrust and I believe that costs them multiples of what they make by never spreading. They are not cheating so why let a number of people think they are?
ihate17
NDN21
Well-Known Member
Casino Cheating?
If the casino wanted your money then why did they wait until you were up, why didn't they just cheat you out of your money right off the bat? If they waited until you were up then the casino would have had to take a chance that you would still be there, you could have left with your winnings at anytime.
$400 bucks in 20 minutes is not unusual. Were you using a progression betting scheme? If so then $400 is quite possible. 10 hand losing streaks are not uncommon in bj. That would be $150 right there if you stuck at flat-betting.
Do you think you were the biggest winner at Foxwoods at that time? If you were then they might have cheated you to get their money back. But if someone won bigger then you (probable) why wouldn't they send the crooked dealer over to that guy's table and get his money back from him since he won more than you did?
When you were winning you most likely thought "I am good, I know how to play BJ like a pro". But when you were losing it was obviously them because you know how to play bj like a pro, right? It couldn't have been you. This is what casino's use to get players back to the casino, the good feelings and confidence from when a player does win.
Sorry but I just don't see how this is any other than bad cards.
If the casino wanted your money then why did they wait until you were up, why didn't they just cheat you out of your money right off the bat? If they waited until you were up then the casino would have had to take a chance that you would still be there, you could have left with your winnings at anytime.
$400 bucks in 20 minutes is not unusual. Were you using a progression betting scheme? If so then $400 is quite possible. 10 hand losing streaks are not uncommon in bj. That would be $150 right there if you stuck at flat-betting.
Do you think you were the biggest winner at Foxwoods at that time? If you were then they might have cheated you to get their money back. But if someone won bigger then you (probable) why wouldn't they send the crooked dealer over to that guy's table and get his money back from him since he won more than you did?
When you were winning you most likely thought "I am good, I know how to play BJ like a pro". But when you were losing it was obviously them because you know how to play bj like a pro, right? It couldn't have been you. This is what casino's use to get players back to the casino, the good feelings and confidence from when a player does win.
Sorry but I just don't see how this is any other than bad cards.