# catching a glimpse of the bottom card before the cut

#### sagefr0g

##### Well-Known Member
if one catches a glimpse of the bottom card before the cut is there a way to turn that into an advantage?

best regards,
mr fr0g

#### Canceler

##### Well-Known Member
Definitely!

sagefr0g said:
if one catches a glimpse of the bottom card before the cut is there a way to turn that into an advantage?
Sure, Bojack1 might make his living that way.

This thread will interest you:

#### sagefr0g

##### Well-Known Member
Canceler said:
Sure, Bojack1 might make his living that way.

This thread will interest you:
great link Canceler! so this methodology must be whats known as card steering.
i'm a lone wolf so i've got to keep this on the back burner for now. but it seems there might be a possibility of some advantage even for a lone player. i'm thinking that just knowing that a particular round is going to have an ace come up may have an advantage to it. i'm no good at probability and odds but it would seem that if landing the ace gives one a 50% advantage then say in a one on one with the dealer if you know a round is going to present an ace then you have a fifty fifty chance of getting it. so i guess you could say that gives you a 25% advantage? i believe the normal distribution of cards per player per round is 2.7 . so if you know how many cards deep that ace is cut you could just divide that number of cards by 2.7 X #hands in action and have a decent idea of what round the ace should show up in. then you'd have to watch for splits to clean up the number. pretty fuzzy but maybe one might achieve a 4% or so advantage? i dunno what does anyone think?

best regards,
mr fr0g

##### Well-Known Member
Here is my thinking on it. If I'm mistaken,someone please correct me.
IN SD or DD,
Dealer hands you the cut card and you see a 5 on the bottom.If you cut very thin,the 5 and the cards behind it go to the back of the slug and won't be in play that series.
IF it is a 10 or an Ace,cut deep and that card will come into in play.
Eliminating a 5 or a 6 from a DD or SD has to be to the players advantage,I suspect.

#### Sonny

##### Well-Known Member
IN SD or DD,
Dealer hands you the cut card and you see a 5 on the bottom.If you cut very thin,the 5 and the cards behind it go to the back of the slug and won't be in play that series.
Right. Being able to cut a small card out of play, and especially a 5 or 6, will often give you a small advantage off the top of a SD or DD game.

IF it is a 10 or an Ace,cut deep and that card will come into in play.
Right again, but let's take this a little further. If you were able to cut an ace to a specific spot (say, the 15th card from the top) you could steer that card to yourself and have a huge advantage on that hand. If it was a ten you could steer it to the dealer as his hit card and hope that it busts him. If it was a small card you could steer it to be the dealer’s hole card. Knowing the dealer’s hole card is a big advantage even to a BS player. That is what card steering is all about.

-Sonny-

#### Automatic Monkey

##### Banned
Sonny said:
Right again, but let's take this a little further. If you were able to cut an ace to a specific spot (say, the 15th card from the top) you could steer that card to yourself and have a huge advantage on that hand. If it was a ten you could steer it to the dealer as his hit card and hope that it busts him. If it was a small card you could steer it to be the dealer’s hole card. Knowing the dealer’s hole card is a big advantage even to a BS player. That is what card steering is all about.

-Sonny-
Most of the casinos I've played in have a rule that a cut has to be at least 1 deck from either end. I suppose there are people who could accurately place a cut card 97 cards from the end, just as there are men who can throw a baseball 97 MPH, but I'm sure not either of these!

My idea of fun with the cut card is sitting at 1st base and manipulating it so I will see my first card. ZG says this is illegal and I think he knows illegal when he sees it, but I've done it a few times when I see the dealer holding the pack weakly, with beneficial results.

Here's another question: I know a few dealers who flash all of the cards towards me while riffling, like a girl flipping up her skirt. I'm still trying to figure out ways to exploit this. I think with practice I can make out slugs of low cards versus slugs of paint.

##### Well-Known Member
Sonny,
I agree with this,but have a question. Besides the difficulty in cutting in exactly the place you want(which can be done with enough practice),how do you control how many cards are dealt so you get the 15th card,for example?
There is no way to know if the preceeding 14 cards are hi,lo or mixed,correct?So how do you know if the player before you is taking 2,3 or 7 cards?
This is an area of expert play that interests me,but I still need to develop other aspects first,I believe.

#### Sonny

##### Well-Known Member
...how do you control how many cards are dealt so you get the 15th card,for example?
Ideally you would want to be alone at the table or have teammates playing the other spots. Otherwise, it can often help to sit at 3rd base in order to control the cards after the other players have played. In any case, you just have to make sure that the right amount of cards get used up on the first few rounds. For example, if there are two players to your right you will want the last round to end on the 8th or 12th card so that the 15th card lands on your spot (as either your first or second card dealt). This will often involve misplaying certain hands or playing multiple spots right before the end of the previous round in order to burn through the unwanted cards and set up your next hand. This type of technique can be used to steer a card anywhere on the table.

-Sonny-

#### Sonny

##### Well-Known Member
Automatic Monkey said:
I suppose there are people who could accurately place a cut card 97 cards from the end, just as there are men who can throw a baseball 97 MPH, but I'm sure not either of these!
It can be much easier than you think if you use physical means instead of a mental estimation. For example, I used to use a little cutting trick on a particular DD game in Vegas. I would hold the cut card in my hand, extend my pinky underneath the deck, press it against the bottom of the deck and slip the cut card in. It almost looked like I was making the “I love you" sign language sign. Then I just measured the distance from my pinky to the finger that held the cut card. It was exactly 39 cards, which is an acceptable cut for a DD game. I didn’t need to mentally estimate the decks at all. The size of my hand was constant so the cut card always went into the same place every time. It was very accurate and looked very natural because I could do it quickly without even paying much attention.

-Sonny-

#### Automatic Monkey

##### Banned
Sonny said:
It can be much easier than you think if you use physical means instead of a mental estimation. For example, I used to use a little cutting trick on a particular DD game in Vegas. I would hold the cut card in my hand, extend my pinky underneath the deck, press it against the bottom of the deck and slip the cut card in. It almost looked like I was making the “I love you" sign language sign. Then I just measured the distance from my pinky to the finger that held the cut card. It was exactly 39 cards, which is an acceptable cut for a DD game. I didn’t need to mentally estimate the decks at all. The size of my hand was constant so the cut card always went into the same place every time. It was very accurate and looked very natural because I could do it quickly without even paying much attention.

-Sonny-
Interesting! Only disadvantage is that a human body part is compressible and does change size due to natural reasons throughout the day.

But... if I could bring myself to wear a pinky ring...

#### zengrifter

##### Banned
Automatic Monkey said:
ZG says this is illegal and I think he knows illegal when he sees it, but I've done it a few times when I see the dealer holding the pack weakly, with beneficial results.
I didn't say "don't do it" - but be aware. Sam Case and some others almost caught a criminal case for excessive employment of the technique. Its also why David Morse is black-listed in AC. zg

#### ScottH

##### Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
I didn't say "don't do it" - but be aware. Sam Case and some others almost caught a criminal case for excessive employment of the technique. Its also why David Morse is black-listed in AC. zg
Being blacklisted is quite the accomplishment. You wouldn't have very many places to play anymore, but you could brag to all your friends!

#### Automatic Monkey

##### Banned
zengrifter said:
I didn't say "don't do it" - but be aware. Sam Case and some others almost caught a criminal case for excessive employment of the technique. Its also why David Morse is black-listed in AC. zg
I hear you. So far I have not used any technique like that to get down more than one huge bet per store. If I was going to really do it up, AC would be where I would do it because of all the really weak dealers. Same for my blowing trick.

You should try AC, you'd have a lot of fun messing with the people they hire as dealers there!

#### zengrifter

##### Banned
Automatic Monkey said:
You should try AC, you'd have a lot of fun messing with the people they hire as dealers there!
I've played AC 1/2-dozen times since 1990 - I think its OK. zg