Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

Eventually....

.....he has to go to the store to get more cheetohs!

- 3 guys pulling up in a van and tossing him in..............$3000

- Tying him to a chair with nylon rope and a pair of visegrips on hand to start skinning him alive.............................................$14.32

All a small price to pay if you already lost 20,000 to him! hahahaha
(Just kidding)


I pulled up the link of his amazing system...it was laughable and standard of many of the bogus systems and scams out there. I need to promote my new system that I talked of at length in my post "My New System".
Not everyone can be trusted with your money, matter of fact HARDLY ANYONE should be trusted with your money. Years ago when I was working as a middle management type, there was another company that we did business with that I knew a salesman from there named Rudy. I heard a story about ol' Rudy from his boss, the owner of the company about a trip to Atlantic City in which he brought maybe $300 to gamble on during a convention, played craps into the night and turned it into about $5000 with what I guess was an incredible run! (This is true because his boss witnessed this) I know nothing about craps and won't play it and have never even tried to comprehend it due to no advantage possibility. Anyway, the next morning he proceeded to hand it all back down to his last dollar and had to borrow gas and toll money to get home!!!!
How did I end up hearing about this story from his boss? Because he still hadn't paid back the person he borrowed the money from 6 months later; Not only that he was down in Atlantic City with a small group of us and apparently went broke so asked me for "maybe a hundred bucks or so and he would get it right back to me the next week" and a few weeks had gone by! It was at this point that I then started to hear all of this about him from others at his company.
To this day I am SO GLAD he did not know how much money I actually had on me, which was around 10,000-15,000. I trusted the guy and knew him for a few years and would have given him more had he asked. If it had been too much more I would have had to get drastic Buford Pusser style...no choice...principle of the thing.
His company went under, went bankrupt within a year after that and he dissipated off. I have written off the 100 bucks long since and consider it a cheap price to pay to find out that someone is no good and not to be trusted but to this day if I ever ran across him someplace, I would clock him and leave him laying there bleeding...just the principle of the thing.

If there is contractual information on this clown as to this transaction, follow up every legal means of going after him for it since it is obvious he is a scam operation going after whoever he can HOWEVER he can. Not taking action means not getting your money back.The amazing Cipher System and what he boasts on his little website promo is obviously ridiculous and is a strong indicator of what this person is about. A knowledgeable professional player is going to know that it's garbage but I'm sure there's of suckers out there that will think it has some degree of legitimacy and be willing to sink money into it and that's what he is counting on. There's a million bullshitters and scammers out there and this guy has all appearances of being one of them.
This has been one of the more interesting but saddening at the same time message threads to read. Someone investing in good faith with a fellow member of the blackjack community that turns out to not be any sort of professional player at all but actually a scam artist trying to sell another garbage system that does not work. I can't say what I would do if I was in this situation. If I am willing to clock someone and leave them bleeding to death in the street over a lousy $100 how far would I go for $20,000?
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
My knowledge is considerable, having worked with Postal and FBI in an undercover capicity for over a year.
Postal Inspector is the place to go with this. zg
Are you at liberty to say what your undercover work was now that it's over?
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
Liquid Chips said:
You're right, Goatmouth. My amount is on the low side.:eek:
It's amazing how lucrative scamming people is. In a way it makes me sick to think of how much money trusting people are losing to d-bags like Cipher.

I don't mind taking advantage of meaningless cash flows such as casinos, but it really sucks to know that decent people are getting hurt from scams like this.
 
ScottH said:
Are you at liberty to say what your undercover work was now that it's over?
It was covered sufficiently in ZGI, I believe... except the part about the failed attempt to
expose Donald Trump's casino money laundering operations... the big one that got away. zg
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
I know this is an incredibly old thread to dig up, but I'm just bumping it because I am interesting to know if anything happened with this. I'm guessing no, but I hope Cipher had to at least pay a little bit...
 
When all the parties harmed suddenly go mum in these sorts of situations, they usually settled the dispute and a gag order was part of the settlement.
 

Liquid Chips

Well-Known Member
No, I didn't get my money back. But as a result of the bad publicity over this, Cipher does not sell his system anymore and his attempt at a political website didn't take off but he now is somehow affiliated with dittoprints.com and obamasprintshop.com . Myself I just moved on.
 
Liquid Chips said:
No, I didn't get my money back. But as a result of the bad publicity over this, Cipher does not sell his system anymore and his attempt at a political website didn't take off but he now is somehow affiliated with dittoprints.com and obamasprintshop.com . Myself I just moved on.
I will try not to do business with either of these operations. I am surprised he is still alive after that BS. People have had mysterious accidents or disappeared without explanation for doing much less.
 

AussiePlayer

Well-Known Member
Liquid Chips said:
No, I didn't get my money back. But as a result of the bad publicity over this, Cipher does not sell his system anymore and his attempt at a political website didn't take off but he now is somehow affiliated with dittoprints.com and obamasprintshop.com . Myself I just moved on.
Sorry to hear that mate
 

johnnyb

Well-Known Member
Liquid Chips said:
No, I didn't get my money back. But as a result of the bad publicity over this, Cipher does not sell his system anymore and his attempt at a political website didn't take off but he now is somehow affiliated with dittoprints.com and obamasprintshop.com . Myself I just moved on.
Tim, I have read your article on this subject and this entire thread. I cannot tell you how saddening all of this information has been, to me. You were investing money in someone, you believed, could help your financial status in order to help your mother. That is a magnanimous characteristic you have in full.

Unfortunately, you just didn't know better and you couldn't predict what was coming.

After all that has happened to you, I'm absolutely amazed you have taken it so well. For most, moving on would not suffice, but you are strong willed which is why I'd like to leave you with two quotes:

"Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."

And for your mother:

"Rom 14:8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's."
 
johnnyb said:
Tim, I have read your article on this subject and this entire thread. I cannot tell you how saddening all of this information has been, to me. You were investing money in someone, you believed, could help your financial status in order to help your mother. That is a magnanimous characteristic you have in full.

Unfortunately, you just didn't know better and you couldn't predict what was coming.

After all that has happened to you, I'm absolutely amazed you have taken it so well. For most, moving on would not suffice, but you are strong willed which is why I'd like to leave you with two quotes:

"Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."

And for your mother:

"Rom 14:8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's."

It can't be said enough: he should've known better, if he had used basic math skills and common sense.

Sometimes, especially in the AP world, that old saying "if it looks too good to be true it probably ain't" doesn't apply. I've seen promotions that were absurdly profitable, and obviously so to anyone with a simple calculator. But wild, unevidenced claims made by humans are another matter.

How can we make it better? We can start by declaring it illegal for anyone to graduate without understanding exponents...
 
johnnyb said:
Tim, I have read your article on this subject and this entire thread. I cannot tell you how saddening all of this information has been, to me. You were investing money in someone, you believed, could help your financial status in order to help your mother. That is a magnanimous characteristic you have in full.
He was ALREADY a member here, so he could have explored it here first but he instead did his CIPHER deal in secret... until the inevitable.

But, then knowing that the system was bogus he used it anyway, two years later, and won more money that CIPHER took from him.

Then the caSINO STIFFED HIM ON HIS WINNINGS ... the saga continues. z:laugh:g
 

Koz1984

Well-Known Member
Liquid Chips said:
No, I didn't get my money back. But as a result of the bad publicity over this, Cipher does not sell his system anymore and his attempt at a political website didn't take off but he now is somehow affiliated with dittoprints.com and obamasprintshop.com . Myself I just moved on.
I just spent about twenty minutes analysing this thread. Wow! A rather unfortunate outcome for you, may I ask as to the reason it was resolved against you?
 

Liquid Chips

Well-Known Member
johnnyb said:
Tim, I have read your article on this subject and this entire thread. I cannot tell you how saddening all of this information has been, to me. You were investing money in someone, you believed, could help your financial status in order to help your mother. That is a magnanimous characteristic you have in full.

Unfortunately, you just didn't know better and you couldn't predict what was coming.

After all that has happened to you, I'm absolutely amazed you have taken it so well. For most, moving on would not suffice, but you are strong willed which is why I'd like to leave you with two quotes:

"Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."

And for your mother:

"Rom 14:8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's."
Thank you for your kind words.

bronco60 said:
It can't be said enough: he should've known better, if he had used basic math skills and common sense.

Sometimes, especially in the AP world, that old saying "if it looks too good to be true it probably ain't" doesn't apply. I've seen promotions that were absurdly profitable, and obviously so to anyone with a simple calculator. But wild, unevidenced claims made by humans are another matter.

How can we make it better? We can start by declaring it illegal for anyone to graduate without understanding exponents...
The reason I trusted Cipher was because I had success with the system myself. It was just that Cipher could do this full-time and with bigger money. So that is why I did it. But Cipher used the money for sports-betting with which he didn't really have a system for as he did for online blackjack.

zengrifter said:
He was ALREADY a member here, so he could have explored it here first but he instead did his CIPHER deal in secret... until the inevitable.

But, then knowing that the system was bogus he used it anyway, two years later, and won more money that CIPHER took from him.

Then the caSINO STIFFED HIM ON HIS WINNINGS ... the saga continues. z:laugh:g
Like I said, I used the Cipher system and won money with it so I didn't think it was bogus. Yes, it was the system that I won $40,000 from Heroes Casino and an additional $20,000 or so from several other casinos afterward.

Koz1984 said:
I just spent about twenty minutes analysing this
thread. Wow! A rather unfortunate outcome for you, may I ask as to the reason it was resolved against you?
Nobody resolved anything. A district attorney was supposed to investigate it but Cipher's wife is a court reporter and familiar to the district attorney. Good ole boy network stymied it. Also, the group that gave Cipher $100,000 dropped pursuing a lawsuit because they knew they wouldn't get anythig out of Cipher so they rather that Cipher work it off. (I don't know if he actually did) They are in California, I'm in Virginia. I had too many other issues in life at the time to pursue the case. In the whole view of life, I didn't want to be motivated to do something that is based on hate or a negative cause. I had enough of it.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
Don't want to seem cruel, but LC lost nothing of his own. He lost his mothers money, not his. Money that he should not have been using, if I read this correctly. Seems to me the legal case would have been LCs mother going after her son for unauthorised use of her money. Doesn't matter what his intentions were, he took and lost her money.
 
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