waveslider
Member
When you sit at a cold one how long does it take to make the decision to move on, before getting too punished?
Cold Shoe
- Thread starter waveslider
- Start date
- Status
In my favorite casino,they usually only have one $3 table open. I like to spread $3-25,and let the $25winners ride if count calls for it.At the other tables,spreading 1-8 brings too much heat.
Luckily,its a two deck shoe so more often than not,you don't have to play too many hands at real bad counts.I try to sit out the ends of really bad shoes but I don't want to do it too often.
I figure if I'm betting $3 in negative or neutral situations,and $10-15 in most positive ones,I'm playing at a good enough advantage to play most of the hands.
Luckily,its a two deck shoe so more often than not,you don't have to play too many hands at real bad counts.I try to sit out the ends of really bad shoes but I don't want to do it too often.
I figure if I'm betting $3 in negative or neutral situations,and $10-15 in most positive ones,I'm playing at a good enough advantage to play most of the hands.
waveslider
Member
OKay
But what if the count is good and you aren't winning. One of those unbeatable dealers how much of your bankroll should you bet until you realize its time to find a new dealer.
But what if the count is good and you aren't winning. One of those unbeatable dealers how much of your bankroll should you bet until you realize its time to find a new dealer.
biggamejames
Well-Known Member
waveslider said:
I have asked a question similar to in another thread and didnt like the answers i got. Apparently some here believe that because people like you and I believe in the myth of the the "hot dealer" (the dealer you are talking about that just wont bust and keeps pulling 5 card 21s and **** like that) that we are crazy or voodoo hoodoo practitioners...
But i know you have sat at a table with a dealer like this. We all have sat at table with such a dealer. While you and i both know, its really not the dealer's fault, he is just dealing the cards, your psyche cant get over the huddle that every time this dealer sets up at a table, 5 minutes later every one has left the table.
Here is my advise to you. If you get some good positive counts in about 3 or 4 shoes but the dealer still beats your brain in and is taking your money, then dood!!!!! GET UP AND LEAVE!!!!:cool2:
Call it voodoo, call it lalala land, but there are studies that have been done that show that gamblers in the the right "mental state" win more. If a dealer has taken you out of your comfort zone mentally, you are bound to make mistakes. Being comfortable mentally is just as important as being comfortable physically. It might actually be more important that being physically comfortable because you count cards in your head and not on your toes.
If a dealer kicks my tail, i am not starting to get up earlier and earlier.. I am one person who does not mind hunting for that dealer on a paying streak rather than sit through a dealer who is having that natural run of bad luck every dealer has.
Ps..for the grandfathered posters on this forum please refrain from giving this guy pointless lectures about the fact that there are no such things like "cold shoes" "hot dealers" etc etc.
He is asking this question because he has actually sat at table where the dealer was taking his money instead of paying him even with the positive count.
WE ALL KNOW THAT ITS JUST A PHASE A DEALER GOES THROUGH AND IT BALANCES OUT WITH STREAKS WHERE THE DEALER BUSTS AND PAYS OUT A TON OF MONEY!!!! that does not change the fact that at one particular point in time that dealer was taking more money off the tables than he/she was paying out even with correct play. At that one point in time that dealer is
a dealer to be avoided if identified.
Ps....i will devote about 30% to a dealer. Though the majority of times i get up nowadays with about a 10-20% loss. (important: i have a daily BR(500-1000) that i set aside to spend on BJ for that day.
thas the BR i am referring to. NOT my overall BR) If i lose it all i try to quit BJ for that whole day until my voodoo hoodoo bad luck changes. If i started doing this very early on, i would be a much richer man right now.
waveslider
Member
That What I am Talking About
Call it Voo Doo but I was just there.
Thanks for the Affirmation.
P.S.
Mental State is VERY Important.......i always try and listen to certian music before I play to psych myself up. The mind is a very powerful tool, and not for just counting.
Call it Voo Doo but I was just there.
Thanks for the Affirmation.
P.S.
Mental State is VERY Important.......i always try and listen to certian music before I play to psych myself up. The mind is a very powerful tool, and not for just counting.
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
as long as the count is positive i don't think it's wise to leave that dealer even if you are taking a beating. after all any given count only lasts for a shoe's worth of cards. but it is when you are in those positve counts that your most productive play shall be realized even if there are times that things don't work out well when the count is positve.
now if after that positive shoe has played out and you've taken a bad beat and just want to get that particular dealer out of your face, well yeah not a problem if you bug out.
it's i think a valid point that ones mental mindset is important. as was said counting is done with the mind and it makes sense that a mind distracted by a bad beat may not perform up to snuff. it's like when a really good boxer loses heart, he may not be physically beaten but mentally he just isn't up to the task and may be taken down by someone whose boxing skills aren't at his level.
now if after that positive shoe has played out and you've taken a bad beat and just want to get that particular dealer out of your face, well yeah not a problem if you bug out.
it's i think a valid point that ones mental mindset is important. as was said counting is done with the mind and it makes sense that a mind distracted by a bad beat may not perform up to snuff. it's like when a really good boxer loses heart, he may not be physically beaten but mentally he just isn't up to the task and may be taken down by someone whose boxing skills aren't at his level.
Waveslider,
What you need to realize is that at the start of each hand,the last hands results are meaningless,except for the count.It doesn't matter if you won or lost,if the dealer is busting every hand,or pulling six card 21s every hand.
If the count is good and you are in an honest casino,leaving the game is simply stupid,and will hurt your game in the long run.The dealer is just another player,and affects your game no more than a ploppy third basemen or any other player.
What makes money in this game is having small bets out in bad situations and big bets out in good situations.If you do that,and make the right play for every situation,you'll thrive.
Your mental state is very important,so why waste it worrying about mythological things like hot dealers or bust cards or cold shoes. You are going to lose more hands than you win. Accept it and learn to laugh when a dealer pulls a seven card 21 to beat your DD max bet 20.
What you need to realize is that at the start of each hand,the last hands results are meaningless,except for the count.It doesn't matter if you won or lost,if the dealer is busting every hand,or pulling six card 21s every hand.
If the count is good and you are in an honest casino,leaving the game is simply stupid,and will hurt your game in the long run.The dealer is just another player,and affects your game no more than a ploppy third basemen or any other player.
What makes money in this game is having small bets out in bad situations and big bets out in good situations.If you do that,and make the right play for every situation,you'll thrive.
Your mental state is very important,so why waste it worrying about mythological things like hot dealers or bust cards or cold shoes. You are going to lose more hands than you win. Accept it and learn to laugh when a dealer pulls a seven card 21 to beat your DD max bet 20.
zengrifter
Banned
Yes, there are those studies. I discuss it in the Zengrifter Interview. Good subject for the Voodoo Zone. zgbiggamejames said:
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
You know, there is one awkward thing about putting out maximum bets in a shoe, and gettling clobbered, and that's having to continuously buy in for more chips. Today, during a bad stretch, I was plopping an amount on the table each round, that was nearly equal to what I originally bought in for at the table. And it was disappearing round after round, and so I had to buy in for more, and that involved yet more confirmation by the floorman of the buy-in amount... it was a real mess. But it seems preferable to suddenly whipping out 4 times your initial buyin amount.
And dammit, I'm hanging with that high count until I either run out of cards or money.
And dammit, I'm hanging with that high count until I either run out of cards or money.
biggamejames
Well-Known Member
shadroch said:
Waveslider...I would advise you to watch the talk of many of the folks on this forum. Remember this important fact. NO ONE HERE WILL SEND YOU A BUCK TO HELP REBUILD YOUR BANKROLL AFTER YOU LOSE IT!!!!
There are alot of people here that are more than willing to give you the best manufactured bullshit packaged and designed for the novice gambler.
But you are not a novice, you have sat at a table and sat through losing streaks as has every one here.
Lets get some facts straight. Most casinos offer multiple tables for black jack.
All these tables will at one point in time feature games that will have high counts that pan out well for card counters and pay them well. Some of these tables will feature cold streaks that are factual and part of the blackjack playing field. They are inevitable and will occur at any table at any time.
For some one to tell you to sit at a table embroiled in a vicious losing streak is the pinnacle of stupidity. And to add bullshit that moving from that table will hurt you in the long run is doubly stupid.
Simply ask the guy imparting this moronic information this question.
"Sir if i get up and leave and play positive counts at another table in the very same casino and prosper, how in the heck will that hurt me?"
This guy is implying that there is some unwritten law that you are stuck with the first table you plop your ass into and that you should stay at that table and burn through money while chasing probability that the dealers streak will end and yours will start. We all know its a fact that streak shall end. It might end when you have burned through your entire bankroll, it mind end 4 hours later...it might even end 10 minutes before the dealer finishes their shift!!!
I am sure you dont need me to point out the stupidity in sitting at a table chasing a circumstance that is currently being duplicated at multiple tables right next to you in the very same pit area.
What this guy with his pompus **** is saying more or less that positive streaks only happen at one table!!!! We both know that is stupid as hell.
It is your money, if you get up from a cold table and do the exact same thing you were doing at a different table.
Bottom line is that you are counting cards the exact same way, you are betting your units the exact same way...Only a baffoon could begin to tell you that you are hurting yourself in any way shape or form and turn around to explain to you the mathematical logic of the insignificance of a cold or hot dealer!!!! (point being that if the dealer can be replaced by a machine it is virtually irrelevant if you get up from the table)
It seems that there is a strong majority of posters here who believe that they should ingrain new posters with their equally morose and bone head advice.
To all those who advise this guy not to change tables i ask this question..(full well knowing you wont answer it because ultimately you are dishing out bullshit)
If a person has lost several bets in several shoes with positive counts, and the person chooses to change tables will this person fail to realize positive counts at another table?
They wont answer that question with a simple yes or no...They are too busy quoting mathematical formulars that ultimately indicate that you have absolutely nothing to lose by changing tables in that you will find pretty much the very same circumstances at another table.
This is much like another argument i had with some people who were trying to convince me that i should play with idiot ploppies. Every single one of them was posting bone head formulars all of which ultimately proved one point. The ploppy is irrelevant to your game so much so i choose to completely eliminate the ploppy completely from my game by choosing not to play with them. The same idiot preaching the irrelevance of the ploppy was the same idiot calling me a fool for not wanting to play with them
Thats kinda like some one telling you harmless bacteria wont kill you..Good thing it wont kill me, that doesnt mean i should injest it!!!I will say this emphatically. Ignore the over educated pompous black jack know it alls. (much like you should at the tables)...
When some one is preaching continue to do the same thing over and over because success is just around the corner. If you are in a casino with 4 bj tables offering double deck bj why should you stay at the same table you are losing at? Why not change tables? How will changing tables hurt you?
All they can say is that the odds will change at the table!!! Of course they will change!!! It doesnt take a friggin rocket scientist to figure that out!!! Why should he stay and burn his money waiting for them to change? Notice that not a single soul giving you bogus advice on sitting through losing streaks will answer any of those questions..(but they are good and belittling us voodoo worshippers!!!:laugh:
biggamejames
Well-Known Member
I Am De Witch Doctor!!! Voodoo Is My Specialty
thats me boys!!!!
king of the voodoo hoo doo players. I believe in hot dealers and wont play with them!!! I dont like ploppies either and i wont play with them!!!!
now bow down with as i ask baalzebub for a big bounty on my next blackjack mission!!! Lets pray that he triples every penny i save because i got up early and left a dealer on a losing streak!!! Lets pray that he doubles every penny i wont lose because i refused to play with ploppies!!!!:whip: :whip: :whip:
thats me boys!!!!
king of the voodoo hoo doo players. I believe in hot dealers and wont play with them!!! I dont like ploppies either and i wont play with them!!!!
now bow down with as i ask baalzebub for a big bounty on my next blackjack mission!!! Lets pray that he triples every penny i save because i got up early and left a dealer on a losing streak!!! Lets pray that he doubles every penny i wont lose because i refused to play with ploppies!!!!:whip: :whip: :whip:
Wow, its been a while since I've had the honor of being astounded with such blackjack knowledge. Lets get this straight, you will walk away from a positive shoe because you're not winning, but you will go in search of another positive shoe to play. Why bother even looking for another one or even count for that matter if you don't feel the advantage you have at the moment is worth sticking around for. Yes of course there are usually many more tables to jump around to, but it usually takes time to find another positive table, and if you aren't inclined to play the positives shoes when you find them whats the point. This game not for the weak willed or undisciplined if you want to win. If that positive shoe kicks your ass, take your beating like a man, and deal with it. There have been many positive situations that I was getting killed on, only to win the last big hand or two and either pull out a win or cushion the loss. Of course there are those that don't turn around for you, but thats the nature of the beast. What I'm saying is you are going to have far less opportunities to play with an advantage, so you should not let any of them go regardless of the outcome. If you leave a positive shoe because of losing, who's to say you will even find another one that night. And you certainly won't make up any losses by flat betting through negative shoes trying to find another positive one. If you play correctly and bet in proportion with your advantage and your bankroll, as annoying as losing when you feel you should be winning is, you will live to fight another day, and the next time may be different. Even if it isn't if you really believe in the math of the game, then you will play on and eventually see whats expected. You don't need to win every battle to win the war.biggamejames said:Waveslider...I would advise you to watch the talk of many of the folks on this forum. Remember this important fact. NO ONE HERE WILL SEND YOU A BUCK TO HELP REBUILD YOUR BANKROLL AFTER YOU LOSE IT!!!!
There are alot of people here that are more than willing to give you the best manufactured bullshit packaged and designed for the novice gambler.
But you are not a novice, you have sat at a table and sat through losing streaks as has every one here.
Lets get some facts straight. Most casinos offer multiple tables for black jack.
All these tables will at one point in time feature games that will have high counts that pan out well for card counters and pay them well. Some of these tables will feature cold streaks that are factual and part of the blackjack playing field. They are inevitable and will occur at any table at any time.
For some one to tell you to sit at a table embroiled in a vicious losing streak is the pinnacle of stupidity. And to add bullshit that moving from that table will hurt you in the long run is doubly stupid.
Simply ask the guy imparting this moronic information this question.
"Sir if i get up and leave and play positive counts at another table in the very same casino and prosper, how in the heck will that hurt me?"
This guy is implying that there is some unwritten law that you are stuck with the first table you plop your ass into and that you should stay at that table and burn through money while chasing probability that the dealers streak will end and yours will start. We all know its a fact that streak shall end. It might end when you have burned through your entire bankroll, it mind end 4 hours later...it might even end 10 minutes before the dealer finishes their shift!!!
I am sure you dont need me to point out the stupidity in sitting at a table chasing a circumstance that is currently being duplicated at multiple tables right next to you in the very same pit area.
What this guy with his pompus **** is saying more or less that positive streaks only happen at one table!!!! We both know that is stupid as hell.
It is your money, if you get up from a cold table and do the exact same thing you were doing at a different table.
Bottom line is that you are counting cards the exact same way, you are betting your units the exact same way...Only a baffoon could begin to tell you that you are hurting yourself in any way shape or form and turn around to explain to you the mathematical logic of the insignificance of a cold or hot dealer!!!! (point being that if the dealer can be replaced by a machine it is virtually irrelevant if you get up from the table)
It seems that there is a strong majority of posters here who believe that they should ingrain new posters with their equally morose and bone head advice.
To all those who advise this guy not to change tables i ask this question..(full well knowing you wont answer it because ultimately you are dishing out bullshit)
If a person has lost several bets in several shoes with positive counts, and the person chooses to change tables will this person fail to realize positive counts at another table?
They wont answer that question with a simple yes or no...They are too busy quoting mathematical formulars that ultimately indicate that you have absolutely nothing to lose by changing tables in that you will find pretty much the very same circumstances at another table.
This is much like another argument i had with some people who were trying to convince me that i should play with idiot ploppies. Every single one of them was posting bone head formulars all of which ultimately proved one point. The ploppy is irrelevant to your game so much so i choose to completely eliminate the ploppy completely from my game by choosing not to play with them. The same idiot preaching the irrelevance of the ploppy was the same idiot calling me a fool for not wanting to play with them
I will say this emphatically. Ignore the over educated pompous black jack know it alls. (much like you should at the tables)...
When some one is preaching continue to do the same thing over and over because success is just around the corner. If you are in a casino with 4 bj tables offering double deck bj why should you stay at the same table you are losing at? Why not change tables? How will changing tables hurt you?
All they can say is that the odds will change at the table!!! Of course they will change!!! It doesnt take a friggin rocket scientist to figure that out!!! Why should he stay and burn his money waiting for them to change? Notice that not a single soul giving you bogus advice on sitting through losing streaks will answer any of those questions..(but they are good and belittling us voodoo worshippers!!!:laugh:
biggamejames
Well-Known Member
Bojack1 said:
So now we are down to playing word games and playing the fool who cant comprehend even the simplest of sentences in the english language.
in my response i clearly state that if you lose 3-4 shoes with positive counts you should move. But this genius decided to revise that statement into something else..
Go on talking, i am sure even the dumbest of the noobs can see how stupid you sound telling them its wiser to sit through losing streaks...
Speaking of which where in the heck do you play bj? I can find positive counts at pretty much any table i choose to sit at in the casino..(oh i forgot to mention i only play SD and DD....But being dumb as you are, i am sure this fact completely escaped you. It would be too much to ask you to evaluate the fact that players who play sd and dd dont spend but a few moments looking for game and dont bother wasting time back counting because pretty much all these games dont allow mid deck entry!!!
I wonder who the fool is now?
golfnut101
Well-Known Member
I'll back that in a heart beat. Any newbies out their pay close attention to this statement. Its not about a 'feeling' or a stop limit. If the count justifies, have the nuts to lay it out their, even if your getting your ass tagged.EasyRhino said:
I believe the casinos began displaying the most recent wins at the Roulette Wheel to attract the same sort of players who believe a dealer can be hot or cold. If that makes me an overeducated purveyor of blackjack bs, so be it. If I'm sitting at a table with a high count it better be the fire alarm sounding if I'm going to move.
waveslider
Member
I Understand the Math
I think what is going on though is that manisfestations of natural series occur, sometimes in the favor of the dealer and sometimes in favour of the bettor (sp). Say last night it happened again DD went from hot to ice cold even in + count, it wasn't till i lost 2g's and another 1g in wild man hail mary mode that i left. Found a six deck that even in - count was paying handsomely.
Obviously I have a lot to learn about higher math, maybe with the Illustrious 18 I could have changed the outcome, as I only employed basice BS.
Interesting opinions weighing in for sure.
Thanks
I think what is going on though is that manisfestations of natural series occur, sometimes in the favor of the dealer and sometimes in favour of the bettor (sp). Say last night it happened again DD went from hot to ice cold even in + count, it wasn't till i lost 2g's and another 1g in wild man hail mary mode that i left. Found a six deck that even in - count was paying handsomely.
Obviously I have a lot to learn about higher math, maybe with the Illustrious 18 I could have changed the outcome, as I only employed basice BS.
Interesting opinions weighing in for sure.
Thanks
- Status