Coloring Up/Out

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Burchy27

New Member
#1
#1
Is it absolutely necessary to Color Up when leaving a table. Are you aloud to just pick up and leave the table without coloring up and having it announced.

I ask this because I don't the fact that is brings myself to the attention of the pit bosses when I am winning even if I am flat betting.

I just posted this question along with an array of other questions in my last post. But I think I'll get a quicker response by having it as it's own thread.
 
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RingyDingy

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
ratholing

If your winning, you dont want them to think your winning right?

one of the little tricks in your arsenal is to rathole, if your playing heads up it gets trickey but usually if you get a few wins, its not hard to slip a few into your pockets, then when you walk away you can even make it look like your a loser, even better to make sure they know you lost, "man i cant believe i just dropped 3 grand"

certainly with dealer changes and the like its very easy to confuse the pit in this instance, unless they are watching you like a hawk.

so every so often if your winning, squirrel a few chips into your pockets.

palming is easy to do and doesnt take much practise.

cheers

Ringy.
 
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cardcounter0

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
By not coloring up, you are creating more work for the pit since they will then have to refill the dealer's tray rack of the table you vacate. The floor hates doing refills.
 
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WRX

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Even if not ratholing chips while playing, I like to grab and pocket a handful of medium-denomination chips when leaving the table, and just color up the rest. It looks natural, because lots of players like to keep a few chips to play with later. And it makes the pit's job harder keeping track of your wins and losses. Probably makes it look like you're not doing as well as you are.
 
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Burchy27

New Member
#7
#7
Thanks...everyone's input has been very helpful. Ill definitely be practicing the palming trick to make it seem that I'm losing or at least breaking even.

So are you aloud to just put chips in your pocket while the dealer can plainly see what your doing. Will the dealer ask how much I am taking off the table? Or will she make a mental note for how much so when I do color out she will be able to add that amount on to get a better and more correct figure for accounting purposes? Couldn't the eye in the sky catch on and notice chips missing if they are already currently suspicious of your play?
 
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Guynoire

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
The casino treats chips exactly as if they were currency. They're your property and you can do with them whatever you like. Leave without coloring up, give them to other people, put them in your pocket, etc. When the dealer asks to color you up it just like someone asking you to break a 20, you don't have to say yes. Ratholing chips can cause suspicion that you are counting or cheating, for red or green chips I don't think most casinos care.
 
EasyRhino

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Incidentally, at one casino I had a big stack of low-denom chips after a while, and grabbed a stack and asked the dealer if I could color them up to something larger while playing. She said "not until you leave". They didn't want people wasting time coloring up and back down while playing. I could see where they were coming from, but it was pretty misplaced, I had just as much interest as playing quickly as they did.
 
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Kasi

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
Guynoire said:
The casino treats chips exactly as if they were currency. They're your property and you can do with them whatever you like. Leave without coloring up, give them to other people, put them in your pocket, etc. When the dealer asks to color you up it just like someone asking you to break a 20, you don't have to say yes. Ratholing chips can cause suspicion that you are counting or cheating, for red or green chips I don't think most casinos care.
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Chips remain the legal property of the casino no matter who may hold them. In Nevada anyway.

Certainly they can refuse to cash them, have a duty to do so, under some circumstances. Maybe even confiscate them, I don't know. Title 31 and all that.
 
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Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
Color up for less!

One good way to make the pit think that you are losing is to pocket a few chips and color up for less chips than you have. The pit uses color ups to gauge how much you are winning or losing! If you run off with a hole bunch of red and green chips they might mark you down for winning more than you have but if you color up they will mark you down for what you colored up plus what you have on the table. Only pocket chips on a full game and if you are winning, if you are getting killed I don't bother to pocket chips!
 
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21forme

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
Cardcounter said:
Only pocket chips on a full game and if you are winning, if you are getting killed I don't bother to pocket chips!
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I disagree. You should pocket chips during a loss as well - use every opportunity available.
 
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21forme

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
LordDante said:
I dont get it why you have to pocket in a loss and why is that an opportunity:confused:
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Because casinos look at your overall win rate if you're a regular. Every opportunity you get to make yourself look like a (cumulative) loser should be used.
 
ihate17

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
Do you play there often enough, lifetime win

21forme said:
I disagree. You should pocket chips during a loss as well - use every opportunity available.
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Let us say you are playing in a casino near to your home that you go too more than a couple of times per year and have a players card. At this casino, win or lose, you should be pocketing some chips to reduce your lifetime win/loss, even during a losing session. Let them think your wins are smaller and your loses are larger than they really are.

Now if you are playing at a casino that you have no plan to return to any time in the near future. Here ratholing on a win will not hurt anything and might help prevent a backoff but ratholing on a loss will gain you nothing.

ihate17
 
Jeff Dubya

Jeff Dubya

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
EasyRhino said:
Incidentally, at one casino I had a big stack of low-denom chips after a while, and grabbed a stack and asked the dealer if I could color them up to something larger while playing. She said "not until you leave".
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I ran into this behavior at Mandalay Bay, from an Asian dealer who was VERY rude about it. How hard is it to color up some quarters into a black? The answer is it is easy, but they knew that black was going into my wife's purse and would not be put back into play.

So I got up and found myself a different table with a different dealer.
 
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callipygian

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
Burchy27 said:
So are you aloud to just put chips in your pocket while the dealer can plainly see what your doing.
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Yes.

Burchy27 said:
Will the dealer ask how much I am taking off the table?
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No.

Burchy27 said:
Or will she make a mental note for how much so when I do color out she will be able to add that amount on to get a better and more correct figure for accounting purposes?
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In my experience, it is the pit boss who is more likely to track it if you're ratholing "big" chips (green at small joints or black at big joints). The dealer doesn't care.

Burchy27 said:
Couldn't the eye in the sky catch on and notice chips missing if they are already currently suspicious of your play?
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Yes. If you cannot rathole properly, it's probably better not to rathole at all.
 
blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#18
#18
agree on rathole

Just a comment on the rathole question to the newer players. Most of the time dealers are well aware of were the greens and blacks go and to whom. If they don't know you and don't plan on staying no big deal but stay and play they get a little edgey on non peak times. The pit gives the dealers hell when the chip tray is down and they have to call for a fill and the dealer doesn't know who took the chips. I can tell you numerous times of dealers getting chewed because someone walked with alot of greens from the table unaccounted for. blackchipjim
 
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callipygian

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
Also note that you don't need to rathole a huge amount to come out as a loser on the books. If you're playing at a 1% advantage, 1-2 units an hour will negate your long-term winnings.

Also remember (from earlier in the thread) that if you're not planning to generate long-term data at the casino, ratholing is completely unnecessary.
 
Mimosine

Mimosine

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
two thoughts:

rathole while in the can. when i take a break i leave a very ordered stack of chips, so that if someone tries to boost some, i know immediately. the loosies i carry to the can, and pocket a small amount.

i have seen several players, usual younger - urbanish, or wanna be urbanites, that hide their entire chip stacks. i have seen one asian do this too, and one woman. they keep their entire stack in a purse, or in their pockets. psychologically i know why these people do this. from the pits point of view, these player are not trackable. a dealer may know relatively where all the reds are, but never the amount. the eye in the sky won't be tracking this either (i would guess).

one comment in response to callipygian:

dealer's have a better idea of who cashes in for what and who cashes out for what than you think. sit at third base for a bit and carefully listen to dealer/pit interactions. you'd be surprised who keeps track of whom and how well....
 
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