Comp Question

[Ninja Chipmunk]

I have 2 comps I am going to use soon and wanted some advice on their use. Currently I am a basic strategy only player. I have a $75 match play coupon which I have to use on either blackjack, craps pass line or any even money roulette bet. On the same day I have a cash coupon worth $175.

So, I was planning to use $75 of the $175 cash coupon on the $75 match play but thought that since this was basically a free $250 wager the casino was giving me I would swing for the fences. So here is what I have decided.

I am going to bet the entire $175 cash coupon and the $75 match play ($250 total) on either a color in roulette or the first hand off the top of a shoe game (6d, DOA, DAS, S17, LS). I know that that chance of winning a color in roulette is roughly 47.4%. Now I seem to remember reading somwhere that the first hand off the top of a shoe was basically a coin flip, something like a 49.5% chance of winning? Please correct me if I am wrong here.

So which bet should I do?

Now, should I win the initial wager I am going to let my bet ride a total of 4 additional times, bringing my total winnings to $8,000. Now I realize that I have a very small chance of winning 5 times like this but as it's the casino's money I have decided to swing for the fences!

My second question was what wager to use on bets 2-5. After the initial bet I can play any bet in the casino. I had narrowed it down to either a color on roulette, the banker in bacarrat or the field bet in craps. Now my understanding is the banker bet has the best chance of winning. That being said, I kind of like the field bet in craps with a 2 paying double and a 12 paying triple. Unfortunately this bet appears to have the lowest possible win percentage.

Not that it matters, but I am not going to let the bet ride 5 times in a row. If I win a round I will walk around until I "feel" another win somewhere... Remember I am a basic strategy player and currently gamble to relax and have fun. Should I decide to learn to count or use other AP tactics I would treat this opportunity differently. However today is not that day!

OK, any advice on how to wager?

 

[EasyRhino]

More than you never wanted to know:

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/beyondcouponsbjfo.pdf

Okay, I assume this coupon is surrendered if you lose, making it a sort of "funny chip". If not, if you get to keep playing it over an over, then it's more like real money, and would use a different strategy.

The optimal play for a funny chip is to bet the longest long shot you can stomach. Sounds like this is going against coupon policy. Assuming that the chip will still pay you 3:2 on a blackjack if you get one, I'd play it on BJ, as long as you have funds to split/double if necessary. If not, then I'd go with a simple "all-in" bet on a low edge game. Pass line in craps (no odds because you're out of money), or banker in baccarat. I'd avoid a red/black in roulette, because the advantage is a large 5%.

If you win, after you'd win, I wouldn't be greedy, because then it's YOUR money. Maybe try to double up after that. That's going to be winning 2-3 times in a row, which is pretty lucky.

For the cash coupon, I'd cash it and go home.

 

[WRX]

Good advice from EasyRhino. Read the link. Great introduction to the kind of deep thinking that makes an advantage player successful. Pay particular attention to how you can increase the value of a match play coupon by using it at Three Card Poker, if the house will let you. Some places will only let you use it on the ante bet, some places only on the play bet. If you use it on the ante bet, some places might let you match only the cash ante bet on your play bet, or match both the cash and the coupon, at your option. Etc. Same deal with double downs and splits at blackjack. If the house gives you few options at blackjack, and won't pay 3:2 for the coupon if you get a natural, your best use of the coupon might be on the pass line at craps.

As for the cash coupon, I'm not sure what the conditions are. Can you simply cash it at the cage and take your money home? Or do you get chips that you can bet repeatedly until they lose, but can't cash? If the latter, realize that you can easily convert them to cash, with only modest variance, giving up only a small house edge, by making a large number of bets in the smallest amount you can. Your best bet is simply the game with the lowest house edge, probably blackjack. If variance is what you crave, if you want to try to hit one out of the park, go ahead, but realize that it's just like you're betting cash.

And why not learn other ways to play with an advantage?

 

[moo321]

My guess would be to bet a number in roulette. Blackjack would probably be one of the worst uses of a coupon. Pass line in craps is marginally better.

 

[WRX]

Chipmunk said "even money," Moo.

 

[InPlay]

My guess would be to bet a number in roulette. Blackjack would probably be one of the worst uses of a coupon. Pass line in craps is marginally better.

Very good comment as always from you "FUZZY" ! Do you take medication for anything ? You are one funny person ! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[moo321]

Very good comment as always from you "FUZZY" ! Do you take medication for anything ? You are one funny person ! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

What should I take meds for? To deal with all the gay rape threats I receive?

 

[moo321]

Chipmunk said "even money," Moo.

Well, then pass line in craps would be best, especially if you could lay odds bets.

If you can get away with making bets you're not supposed to (and you definitely should try to) then the numbers in roulette and the carnie bets in craps are best.

 

[Ninja Chipmunk]

Thanks Rhino, I have read the Grossjean article and a few others of his. Good stuff.

WRX, I am learning to count but do not have it anywhere close to being ready to use in a casino. The match play coupon expires soon. To clarify it can only be used on “Blackjack, the pass line on Craps and any even money bet on Roulette”. It does not specify whether a natural would pay 3:2 or whether I can take odds on the pass line bet with additional money.
On the same day I have a cash coupon for $175, which can simply be exchanged at the cage for cash. I was going to use $75 of the $175 to cover the match play coupon. Basically my thought process goes like this. Bet the $75 match play coupon plus the entire $175 on one of the 3 listed bets. Should I win I will now have $500 in live chips that I can cash in or bet on anything in the house.

Currently I am learning to count and thought this could be an opportunity to add to my bankroll for the time when I am ready. And as I am gambling with the casino’s money why not go big. That being said I want to basically re-bet the entire amount until I either win $8000 or lose the bet. It would take 5 wins, betting the entire amount won from previous bets, to reach this amount.

I am not going to simply bet black on roulette 5 times in a row. I may alternate between any game in the house after the initial bet and was leaning towards either banker bet in bacarrat, color in roulette or the field bet in craps. Initially I wasn’t looking at the field bet but a 2 pays double and a 12 pays triple and now think this isn’t such a bad bet considering what I am going to attempt. I know the odds are against me but why not go for a big win?

My guess would be to bet a number in roulette. Blackjack would probably be one of the worst uses of a coupon. Pass line in craps is marginally better.

What about the first hand off a new shoe? Aren't the odds of winning slightly higher for that one hand? Or am I way off here....

Well, then pass line in craps would be best, especially if you could lay odds bets.


If you can get away with making bets you're not supposed to (and you definitely should try to) then the numbers in roulette and the carnie bets in craps are best.

I thought of maybe taking the matchplay coupon and $75 cash then take $100 in odds with the remaining money. Not sure if they will allow this, but it's something I could try.

 

[ChefJJ]

I thought of maybe taking the matchplay coupon and $75 cash then take $100 in odds with the remaining money. Not sure if they will allow this, but it's something I could try.

Don't see why not...the Odds bet is a totally separate wager from the Pass Line bet, much like Insurance is from your main wager in Blackjack.

good luck

 

[EasyRhino]

For sheer coupon extraction, with minimal risk

1) Go to cage, get $175 cash
2) Place $75+$75 on pass line on craps.
3) Play until win or loss
4) Go home

The odds bet serves no purpose, it's an even money gamble, but it doesn't change the usefulness of your match play any.

If you play BJ, you might have to back your $150 with another $150 (or more!) if you have to split/double/etc. So if you have the extra bankroll, and a BJ pays 3:2 on the matchplay, then you can do BJ. Otherwise, craps will give you better odds.

And there's really no point in trying to parlay your wins (except for gambling's sake). Because as soon as the match play is consumed, it's value is done, and you're playing with your own money

 

[moo321]

Thanks Rhino, I have read the Grossjean article and a few others of his. Good stuff.

WRX, I am learning to count but do not have it anywhere close to being ready to use in a casino. The match play coupon expires soon. To clarify it can only be used on “Blackjack, the pass line on Craps and any even money bet on Roulette”. It does not specify whether a natural would pay 3:2 or whether I can take odds on the pass line bet with additional money.
On the same day I have a cash coupon for $175, which can simply be exchanged at the cage for cash. I was going to use $75 of the $175 to cover the match play coupon. Basically my thought process goes like this. Bet the $75 match play coupon plus the entire $175 on one of the 3 listed bets. Should I win I will now have $500 in live chips that I can cash in or bet on anything in the house.

Currently I am learning to count and thought this could be an opportunity to add to my bankroll for the time when I am ready. And as I am gambling with the casino’s money why not go big. That being said I want to basically re-bet the entire amount until I either win $8000 or lose the bet. It would take 5 wins, betting the entire amount won from previous bets, to reach this amount.

I am not going to simply bet black on roulette 5 times in a row. I may alternate between any game in the house after the initial bet and was leaning towards either banker bet in bacarrat, color in roulette or the field bet in craps. Initially I wasn’t looking at the field bet but a 2 pays double and a 12 pays triple and now think this isn’t such a bad bet considering what I am going to attempt. I know the odds are against me but why not go for a big win?




What about the first hand off a new shoe? Aren't the odds of winning slightly higher for that one hand? Or am I way off here....



I thought of maybe taking the matchplay coupon and $75 cash then take $100 in odds with the remaining money. Not sure if they will allow this, but it's something I could try.

If they let you put the coupon on the odds bet, then do it. Otherwise, just play the line. Don't put your own cash on the odds bet.