Continuous shuffle machines

[ihate17]

Document all but Macau

Since I have filed U.S. income tax returns since the early 80's as a pro gambler because of an audit, I can prove that as a part time player I have averaged more than 3 times your winnings over the past 26 years, so I am not impressed at all.
I am also smart enough to be able to keep the doors of most (I have also been barred) casinos open to me. Being good does you absolutely no good when no one will let you play. Being stupid will get you featured in a publication so everyone knows who you are and will not let you play, unless you have othe outlets such as books, lessons or tournaments on TV to make money on blackjack.

Furthermore, in your answer to me to choose to ignore the subject of my post about a CSM with 4 decks not being comparable to a 4 deck shoe since the constanst shuffling makes it near an infinate shoe. In case you are also not smart enough to figure this one out, an infinite shoe should be larger than a 6 deck shoe.

Being listed in Griffin is not a big deal with most U.S. casinos unless you are listed as a cheat and not a counter. Most casinos might check Griffin but then make their own determination to barr or not based on their evaluation.

I have been doing this for over 30 years and know other players who have done this for as long or longer and somehow we still can find plenty of casinos to play in. Perhaps you just need to get off the island for a bit.

ihate17

Doubt as you wish, I'm not concerned. Have you won $10-$12K each year on average (part time) for the last 10 years? Can you back that up with documented proof and win/loss statements? Have you just had your gambling career featured in a Macau publication as I have? If you can say yes to all of these items as I can, then you have the right to judge me.

I AM barred from all UK casinos. Would you like to see some of the letters from the various groups - from Stanley Leisure, from London Clubs International, from Grosvenor Casinos Group, from Gala Casinos? Believe me, I'd prefer not to be barred, but I am. One by one, I lost 23 London casino memberships (and my others in the UK) in August 2007 over the space of a week and a half - after almost 10 years of history with some of these places. Clearly I got on a list of sorts - maybe Griffin? Maybe some internal casino list only in the UK? Again, the casinos won't give me a straight answer for the barring so I'm guessing at what has likely happened. All of the letters (which I only got upon requesting) simply say that they can recede membership at any time. All UK casinos are private members clubs. They have that right. I'd fight them legally but there's nothing to fight - they set the rules, and you agree to them when you join.

It's not my job to fill CSM tables in casinos. Average joe beginners will do that. I just want to ensure that when they sit down to play they've at least got SOME information that might help them to improve their game, or the overall playing conditions (including comps, promos etc).

Thanks for the comments, I'm happy to entertain further submissions.

 

[davidpom]

Congrats on your wins! That's fantastic. I'm thrilled to hear that you're winning too - and much more than I am. It seems also that you've cottoned on to some magic formula to escape being barred - that's good news also. That's why I'm here: I want to learn more from clear gambling "gods" like yourself who can show the rest of us mere peasants how to bring the gambling palaces of chance to their knees. I look forward to reading your future posts, as they are sure to be enlightening to the rest of us clearly wallowing in the darkness of misinformation.

Re my winnings, I don't need you to be impressed. One) Personal winnings are personal winnings. Two) I'm happy with my results for what is a part-time sideline for me, and that's what matters to me.

Worrying about what others think is something I've never done. I used to be chronically overweight and dealt with "fat jokes" and similar crap from idiots all day long. I addressed that issue, and no longer get that abuse because society accepts me as normal sized now. Do I think that people had the right to give me abuse? No, but I understand why they did it. They were narrow minded, figured that they were somehow superior, and felt they had the right to make others feel smaller in the hope that they would somehow magically themselves appear greater. I hope they found some form of happiness in their wallow of depravity. Good on them. Whatever. I respect their rights to their views. Woohoo.

For the record I didn't ignore your post about a 4 deck shoe being equivalent to an infinite shoe. I just didn't respond because your enlightened analysis is simply not mathematically correct. The cards may be dealt infinitely, but there are still only 4 decks in play at any time. Only 16 2's. Only 16 5's. Only 16 6's. That is an indisputible fact. The ability for the dealer to pull cards without busting is dependent upon those cards and the number of them that can be potentially pulled at any time. So, rather than start a flaming war in the forum (which is completely pointless) I chose not to respond to the post and cause you obvious embarrassment. Personal choice. Please forgive me.

Heck, we're all here to HELP each other. So let's do that shall we? Or are you intent on filling an adult forum with schoolyard politics and bullying?

 

[davidpom]

But that’s where most of your profit comes from! You won’t see a +4 TC very often so you’ll be giving away your minimum bets most of the time. Your big bets will have to be very big in order to overcome all the losses from negative and neutral counts. That forces you to use a large, sudden bet spread. You are also giving up a decent advantage between +2 and +4, which are much more frequent that +4 and above.

So this style of play is costing you money, increasing your risk and blowing your cover. I think you would be better off using a more conventional betting style like most books and websites recommend.-Sonny-

Hi Sonny, I appreciate that input, and will consider trialling it in future. I'm here to help improve my game (as stated in my earlier posts), and I don't have a closed mind to suggestions - so thank you for the helpful information.

 

[taipafan]

Hi David, where can I find your writing about Macau?

 

[Kasi]

my post about a CSM with 4 decks not being comparable to a 4 deck shoe since the constanst shuffling makes it near an infinate shoe. In case you are also not smart enough to figure this one out, an infinite shoe should be larger than a 6 deck shoe.ihate17

No big deal but a 4-deck CSM would be the same as a 4 deck game to a BS player.

Well, if you ignore the cut-card effect in a 4-deck shoe.

If you don't ignore it, the CSM would actually have a lower HA for a BS player.

For an infinite deck, all you would really need is 1 deck of cards, deal one card, put it back, and re-shuffle lol.

 

[davidpom]

I can't attach a document to this post or I'd publish it here (the Macau article). Drop me a Private Message with your details and I'll forward you a PDF version of the article.

For those who want to read it in context of the whole magazine, it can be found in "Macau Closer" magazine. I'm guessing that's obtainable / accessible somewhere on the web.

 

[Sonny]

For those who want to read it in context of the whole magazine, it can be found in "Macau Closer" magazine. I'm guessing that's obtainable / accessible somewhere on the web.

The website is here but it is currently under construction:

http://www.macaucloser.com/

-Sonny-

 

[aslan]

The website is here but it is currently under construction:

http://www.macaucloser.com/

-Sonny-

Just an aside. But what does "Bullet Chaser" refer to? Just curious.

Does it possibly refer to counting Aces? Cutting Aces?

 

[taipafan]

The website is here but it is currently under construction:

http://www.macaucloser.com/

-Sonny-

4 issues can be downloaded from the website.

 

[bj bob]

Not on open forum

Just an aside. But what does "Bullet Chaser" refer to? Just curious.

Does it possibly refer to counting Aces? Cutting Aces?

This, Aslan my man, is a very, very private and sensitive subject, known only to Sonny's doctor and his wife. I became privy to this part of his life only after a substantial cash deposit.:grin: :grin: :grin:

 

[Elhombre]

I've done a lot of research on these CSM's. It is very hard to get an advantage with them. I can track clumps of cards through the CSM's but it is very difficult to tell exactly where they will appear. Being off by a couple of hands can really be bad. I either have good days or bad days when I play against these things.

bigbjfan, I am impressed of your observations.
They are nearly the same I have made.
The casino near my home has the One2six since 3 months, before they had the Shuffle Star.
Before 1,5 months I decided to train my brain to remember sequences 5 times a week for the handshuffled game far away from my home.
And I made the same experiances like you.
For my opinion this CSM is trackable with an advantage of 4-5%.
But you don't have a good bet very often.
About 2-3 times an hour, that depends of the number of boxes that are played.
Some days are very bad and I hit the predicted cards very seldom.
But some days are very good.
So for my statistics I have now an advantage of about 4-5% in 268 bets.

I made 268 bets and hit 54 aces instead of 20,5 as usual.
Not so easy as in handshuffled games. And it depends------------
of your skill and so on.
regards rainer

PS: the old world record to remember a deck of cards was 32 seconds by
Andy Bell UK, the new one is exiting 26 seconds by Brian Pridmore UK.

 

[la_dee_daa]

I've done a lot of research on these CSM's. It is very hard to get an advantage with them. I can track clumps of cards through the CSM's but it is very difficult to tell exactly where they will appear. Being off by a couple of hands can really be bad. I either have good days or bad days when I play against these things.

bigbjfan, I am impressed of your observations.
They are nearly the same I have made.
The casino near my home has the One2six since 3 months, before they had the Shuffle Star.
Before 1,5 months I decided to train my brain to remember sequences 5 times a week for the handshuffled game far away from my home.
And I made the same experiances like you.
For my opinion this CSM is trackable with an advantage of 4-5%.
But you don't have a good bet very often.
About 2-3 times an hour, that depends of the number of boxes that are played.
Some days are very bad and I hit the predicted cards very seldom.
But some days are very good.
So for my statistics I have now an advantage of about 4-5% in 268 bets.

I made 268 bets and hit 54 aces instead of 20,5 as usual.
Not so easy as in handshuffled games. And it depends------------
of your skill and so on.
regards rainer

PS: the old world record to remember a deck of cards was 32 seconds by
Andy Bell UK, the new one is exiting 26 seconds by Brian Pridmore UK.

was your clump tracking done on the One2six?
if so could u elaborate on the details possibly.
Every casino around me has those One2six csms ( i think, maybe a few don't)and there is only one place that still offers shoe games. here in canada...

soooo any insight into these things would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jimpenn]

Canada - Hand Shuffle 6 Deck?

A year or so ago I played at FallsView and the High Roller Room offered a hand held 6 Deck game with favorable rules and pen.

 

[Sonny]

Just an aside. But what does "Bullet Chaser" refer to? Just curious.

“Chainsaw Juggler” is pretty hard to top but I wanted something a little more BJ specific that still had an air of danger and excitement. It’s just a generic term for anyone who counts, cuts or sequences aces. Basically, we're all just chasing bullets. I like tens as well, but I didn’t think that “Monkey Lover” was quite the image I wanted to present.

-Sonny-

 

[aslan]

“Chainsaw Juggler” is pretty hard to top but I wanted something a little more BJ specific that still had an air of danger and excitement. It’s just a generic term for anyone who counts, cuts or sequences aces. Basically, we're all just chasing bullets. I like tens as well, but I didn’t think that “Monkey Lover” was quite the image I wanted to present.

-Sonny-

LOL Thanks, That explains it! :laugh:

 

[davidpom]

The website is here but it is currently under construction:
http://www.macaucloser.com/
-Sonny-

Thanks Sonny, yes I noticed that also. The publisher name Ricardo Pinto is correct though - he's the editor who did the interview with me.

Macau Closer is a magazine for the local Macau audience, distributed locally in that vicinity. I do have a PDF of the article which I'm happy to send as previously stated - just send me a Private Message to request (with your email details) and I'll send you a copy.

 

[dangeroso]

Have you won $10-$12K each year on average (part time) for the last 10 years?

I'm a newbie here, and I'm not taking shots at anyone, but I'm a little confused.

You claim to make quite a bit of money (more than I do) by playing advantage BJ. So why are you asking about CSMs? Seems like you whould know that you don't have an advantage playing them, and therefore would have a pretty low opinion.

Am I missing something?

 

[bigbjfan]

I rarely play against the CSM's but the closest casino to me (which is only a couple miles away) uses the CSM exclusively. A few years ago, when learning my BS, I played against them a lot because I hadn't learned to count so it really didn't matter. Once I had that down, I quit playing them and started to try to decipher the way the CSM operates. I've made some interesting observations but haven't put any $$$ down on my CSM findings yet. I'll post an update when I actually put some money down on these things.

 

[davidpom]

I'm a newbie here, and I'm not taking shots at anyone, but I'm a little confused.

You claim to make quite a bit of money (more than I do) by playing advantage BJ. So why are you asking about CSMs? Seems like you whould know that you don't have an advantage playing them, and therefore would have a pretty low opinion.

Am I missing something?

Hi Dangeroso, yes, you are missing something - my earlier post on this thread at #15. I've repeated it below - hopefully it will make things clearer.

"I play these machines infrequently - but they are the ONLY option in my local casino here in the antipodes... and I'm barred from the VIP area of my local casino which is the only part which has any kind of hand shuffled game (and it's 6 deck in any case). Yes, this particular casino won't let me play upstairs in the VIP area anymore (because I can beat that game, and for good amounts - and they know it / and have experienced it) - but they haven't barred me completely. They're fine with me playing the shufflers for lower limits and green / black action on the main gaming floor... if that's what I have to do, then reluctantly I will play them.

You're correct - you can't get an edge in the traditional way on these CSM;s. You can have a reasonable run on basic strategy, but you can't turn the odds in your favour. Therefore its not an advantage play, even with the comp points gained for playing.

I play low limit for entertainment value - but I'd never consider high stakes ($500+ per hand) on them like I do when visiting the US (playing single deck, double deck games with good penetration and hand shuffling downtown).

I'm not a fool, and I do realise that I'm battling odds against me when I play these machines. But equally in the local market I have little choice if I want to play blackjack for cash - this is the ONLY casino for 200 miles or more (and the others far away are owned by the same parent company too). So I do play low limit for recreation, but only occasionally.

The 4 deck game CSM is better than a 6 deck but only for basic strategy players. For advantage players like ourselves, I'd much rather play a 6 deck hand shuffled game with decent penetration anytime."

 

[dangeroso]

Hi Dangeroso, yes, you are missing something - my earlier post on this thread at #15. I've repeated it below - hopefully it will make things clearer.

"I play these machines infrequently - but they are the ONLY option in my local casino here in the antipodes... and I'm barred from the VIP area of my local casino which is the only part which has any kind of hand shuffled game (and it's 6 deck in any case). Yes, this particular casino won't let me play upstairs in the VIP area anymore (because I can beat that game, and for good amounts - and they know it / and have experienced it) - but they haven't barred me completely. They're fine with me playing the shufflers for lower limits and green / black action on the main gaming floor... if that's what I have to do, then reluctantly I will play them.

You're correct - you can't get an edge in the traditional way on these CSM;s. You can have a reasonable run on basic strategy, but you can't turn the odds in your favour. Therefore its not an advantage play, even with the comp points gained for playing.

I play low limit for entertainment value - but I'd never consider high stakes ($500+ per hand) on them like I do when visiting the US (playing single deck, double deck games with good penetration and hand shuffling downtown).

I'm not a fool, and I do realise that I'm battling odds against me when I play these machines. But equally in the local market I have little choice if I want to play blackjack for cash - this is the ONLY casino for 200 miles or more (and the others far away are owned by the same parent company too). So I do play low limit for recreation, but only occasionally.

The 4 deck game CSM is better than a 6 deck but only for basic strategy players. For advantage players like ourselves, I'd much rather play a 6 deck hand shuffled game with decent penetration anytime."

Fair enough. I guess that's where we differ. If I were barred from part of a casino, and only allowed to play CSMs where the house has a greater advantage, I simply would not return.

To each his own, however.