Controversial basic strategy spots
- Thread starter SlyPooch
- Start date
Of course Wizard is correct. Isn't he usually? Well at least with math. 
And while by the math it is correct (depending on exact rules), I personally take into consideration more than just math because my top priority is longevity and my circumstance of playing a 'regular' rotation of games.
Specifically to these plays, I really dislike #4. While basic strategy for most games I play, it can and will draw a disproportionate attention from both other players and dealer/pit. So I usually back this play off from BS a bit to tc +2 or so.
And while by the math it is correct (depending on exact rules), I personally take into consideration more than just math because my top priority is longevity and my circumstance of playing a 'regular' rotation of games.
Specifically to these plays, I really dislike #4. While basic strategy for most games I play, it can and will draw a disproportionate attention from both other players and dealer/pit. So I usually back this play off from BS a bit to tc +2 or so.
KewlJ said:
Of course Wizard is correct. Isn't he usually? Well at least with math.
And while by the math it is correct (depending on exact rules), I personally take into consideration more than just math because my top priority is longevity and my circumstance of playing a 'regular' rotation of games.
Specifically to these plays, I really dislike #4. While basic strategy for most games I play, it can and will draw a disproportionate attention from both other players and dealer/pit. So I usually back this play off from BS a bit to tc +2 or so.
And while by the math it is correct (depending on exact rules), I personally take into consideration more than just math because my top priority is longevity and my circumstance of playing a 'regular' rotation of games.
Specifically to these plays, I really dislike #4. While basic strategy for most games I play, it can and will draw a disproportionate attention from both other players and dealer/pit. So I usually back this play off from BS a bit to tc +2 or so.
All of the points regarding subtle nuances are well taken. However the OP was asking about basic strategy and, from the way the question was worded, it seems that he may have seen some basic strategy cards which differed. That's why I was careful to say that the wizard is correct for the rules that were stated.
A more complete answer from me would have pointed out that basic strategy does change for different rules. In particular, S17 would change 3 of the 4 hands that he asked about.
And in the spirit of teaching a man to fish:
https://www.blackjackinfo.com/blackjack-basic-strategy-engine/
A more complete answer from me would have pointed out that basic strategy does change for different rules. In particular, S17 would change 3 of the 4 hands that he asked about.
And in the spirit of teaching a man to fish:
https://www.blackjackinfo.com/blackjack-basic-strategy-engine/
LC Larry,
The Wizard of Odds (see
https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/9/6ds17r4/ for details)
gives these EV's for A,8 vs. 6 for 6D, S17:
EVS = 0.493924, EVD = 0.480266
So, the penalty for always doubling here is 0.013658, or a bit over 1.36%.
Hope this helps!
Dog Hand
The Wizard of Odds (see
https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/9/6ds17r4/ for details)
gives these EV's for A,8 vs. 6 for 6D, S17:
EVS = 0.493924, EVD = 0.480266
So, the penalty for always doubling here is 0.013658, or a bit over 1.36%.
Hope this helps!
Dog Hand
SlyPooch,
For 1, changing from H17 to S17 would flip the BS play from double to hit.
For 2, changing from BJ to Free Bet BJ would flip the BS play from stand to split: see https://wizardofodds.com/games/free-bet-blackjack/
Hope this helps!
Dog Hand
For 1, changing from H17 to S17 would flip the BS play from double to hit.
For 2, changing from BJ to Free Bet BJ would flip the BS play from stand to split: see https://wizardofodds.com/games/free-bet-blackjack/
Hope this helps!
Dog Hand
I agree with Kj and paymypush. No.4 can generate heat so I avoid it for the most part. I no longer do it at my local casinos after I had a pit boss come over and tell me he was going to watch me more after I did this play and won with my max bet. I got a 10 and the dealer busted with a 10. It wasn’t a good look.
JohnClover the reason no.4 will generate more heat than the index play for 12 vs 4 is because most casinos don’t care much what you do with your minimum bet. And this is the only time the 12 vs 4 or 17 vs ace index play comes into play. They care more about what you’re doing with your bigger bets. While most casino people don’t know basic strategy, many do know that when the count is rich in high cards, a card counter will bet more, double more and split more. In my case, it didn’t look good having the pit boss watching my play and seeing a bunch of 10s come out when I doubled my soft 19. Most ploppies don’t do this. Heck, most of them don’t even double their soft 18.
For sake of transparency since many APs care more about who the poster is, rather than the content of the post, I’m dbs and bob21. Sure wish I had used the same handle on all these different forums, but it is what it is.
JohnClover the reason no.4 will generate more heat than the index play for 12 vs 4 is because most casinos don’t care much what you do with your minimum bet. And this is the only time the 12 vs 4 or 17 vs ace index play comes into play. They care more about what you’re doing with your bigger bets. While most casino people don’t know basic strategy, many do know that when the count is rich in high cards, a card counter will bet more, double more and split more. In my case, it didn’t look good having the pit boss watching my play and seeing a bunch of 10s come out when I doubled my soft 19. Most ploppies don’t do this. Heck, most of them don’t even double their soft 18.
For sake of transparency since many APs care more about who the poster is, rather than the content of the post, I’m dbs and bob21. Sure wish I had used the same handle on all these different forums, but it is what it is.
SlyPooch,
Close enough!
In a 6D game, the probability of being dealt A,8 (or, equivalently, 8,A) vs. 6 is 2*24*24*24/(312*311*310), or 0.0009191513... In other words, you'll get this hand a little over 9 times per 10,000 rounds. Each time you DD rather than stand, it costs you an average of 0.013658 bets, as I explained earlier in the thread. Thus, always doubling A,8 vs. 6 in a 6D, S17 game will increase the house edge by 0.013658*0.0009191513 = 0.0000125537, or 0.00125537%, so if the normal house edge is 0.66%, the new house edge will soar to 0.66125537%.
Hope this helps to teach an old dog a new trick!
Dog Hand
Close enough!
In a 6D game, the probability of being dealt A,8 (or, equivalently, 8,A) vs. 6 is 2*24*24*24/(312*311*310), or 0.0009191513... In other words, you'll get this hand a little over 9 times per 10,000 rounds. Each time you DD rather than stand, it costs you an average of 0.013658 bets, as I explained earlier in the thread. Thus, always doubling A,8 vs. 6 in a 6D, S17 game will increase the house edge by 0.013658*0.0009191513 = 0.0000125537, or 0.00125537%, so if the normal house edge is 0.66%, the new house edge will soar to 0.66125537%.
Hope this helps to teach an old dog a new trick!
Dog Hand