Count down a deck... How fast
- Thread starter troopshunter
- Start date
Interesting question. I suspect that the distinction one would want would be speed differences between level 1 and level 2 counts, then perhaps multi-parameter counts.
I have read that many teams expect players to be able to count down a deck in 25 seconds or less. I suspect some have more strict parameters.
In controlled conditions, i.e., using the CV counting drills, I currently hit 21 seconds. I am sometimes slower, and on occasion faster, in actual casino conditions. I use a level 1 count.
I have read that many teams expect players to be able to count down a deck in 25 seconds or less. I suspect some have more strict parameters.
In controlled conditions, i.e., using the CV counting drills, I currently hit 21 seconds. I am sometimes slower, and on occasion faster, in actual casino conditions. I use a level 1 count.
it doesn't really matter how fast you can count a deck. as long as it's fast enough to keep up with a fast dealer, whilst talking with him/her, watching your bet ramp and counting accurately. 
i practiced for maybe 15-20 hours over a couple of weeks - progressing from 1 deck to 6 decks. then i was at a casino and (surprisingly) realised it was good enough to keep up with the dealer.
i practiced for maybe 15-20 hours over a couple of weeks - progressing from 1 deck to 6 decks. then i was at a casino and (surprisingly) realised it was good enough to keep up with the dealer.
I for one rarely do that drill and prefer to practice at the table. Sometimes I'll count a deck when I'm trying out new system tags for some oddball game or sidebet, and what I do is bury a card, count the rest of the deck and when I know the buried card correctly 3 times in a row, it's time to hit the table with my new trick.
Unless your playing heads up with a machine gun, whats the difference between counting a deck down in 15 sec or 25 seconds?
Most of you guys are playing shoe games, like myself, any way. What's more important is how accurate you are after 3-4 decks dealt in a 6d or 8d shoe.
So you can do a deck in 15 seconds, can you count down 4 straight decks in 60 sec and be accurate? How about 4 decks in 90 seconds. Is there much of a difference? Do you think any dealer will even deal out 34 rounds in 60 seconds, or even 34 rounds in 5 minutes heads up? Very doubtful.
Counting down the deck should be done without thinking, a natural act, giving you plenty of time to make your next move.
BJC
Most of you guys are playing shoe games, like myself, any way. What's more important is how accurate you are after 3-4 decks dealt in a 6d or 8d shoe.
So you can do a deck in 15 seconds, can you count down 4 straight decks in 60 sec and be accurate? How about 4 decks in 90 seconds. Is there much of a difference? Do you think any dealer will even deal out 34 rounds in 60 seconds, or even 34 rounds in 5 minutes heads up? Very doubtful.
Counting down the deck should be done without thinking, a natural act, giving you plenty of time to make your next move.
BJC
One thing that isn't getting mentioned is how people count through a deck.
There are 3 ways that I can think off, each with different speeds;
- The slowest way is probably to have the deck face down and to take cards off the top one by one, flipping them and throwing them down.
- A faster method is to do the same but with the deck face up, so you don't need to flip the card, making it a little faster.
- The fastest way is probably to have the deck face up and to spread them, and just slide them from left hand to right; this way gives you lots of cards to see in advance as you go.
I think people should mention their method when they post their times, as it can be disheartening for a 30 second guy to see another guy post times that are half that, where really it's down to different methods.
Personally, using the slow method I have about 40 seconds, and 25 using the spread.
There are 3 ways that I can think off, each with different speeds;
- The slowest way is probably to have the deck face down and to take cards off the top one by one, flipping them and throwing them down.
- A faster method is to do the same but with the deck face up, so you don't need to flip the card, making it a little faster.
- The fastest way is probably to have the deck face up and to spread them, and just slide them from left hand to right; this way gives you lots of cards to see in advance as you go.
I think people should mention their method when they post their times, as it can be disheartening for a 30 second guy to see another guy post times that are half that, where really it's down to different methods.
Personally, using the slow method I have about 40 seconds, and 25 using the spread.
I agree with BJcount in that speed is not necessarily the most important factor when counting in a casino. It's true that there will occasionally be a fast dealer, but there are many techniques that can be used to slow him/her down (taking longer to "think" about your play to simply saying, "whoa buddy! moving a little fast for a novice like me").
I am able to count down a deck consistently in the 20 second range. A card counting friend of mine is much quicker than me (15-16 seconds no problem for him) but his problem is that he has to concentrate with all his might to get that fast. You'll never need to be that fast in a casino and all he's doing is begging for a pit boss to come over and bar him because he's not acting like a gambler. My "slow" approach allows me to chat with people and act natural all while being able to count the cards, slowing the play/dealer down if need be.
I've always been a bit confused as to why some teams required a 20 or even 15 second rule, which seems a bit excessive to me, when other factors such as your elimination of playing errors and your "act" at a casino prove far more important to a successful player/team.
My suggestion is to stop worrying about how fast you are and ask yourself this: "Can I keep the count at the table and play, making zero errors, while keeping up my appearance as a regular gambler?" If the answer is "yes" then who cares about anything else?
I am able to count down a deck consistently in the 20 second range. A card counting friend of mine is much quicker than me (15-16 seconds no problem for him) but his problem is that he has to concentrate with all his might to get that fast. You'll never need to be that fast in a casino and all he's doing is begging for a pit boss to come over and bar him because he's not acting like a gambler. My "slow" approach allows me to chat with people and act natural all while being able to count the cards, slowing the play/dealer down if need be.
I've always been a bit confused as to why some teams required a 20 or even 15 second rule, which seems a bit excessive to me, when other factors such as your elimination of playing errors and your "act" at a casino prove far more important to a successful player/team.
My suggestion is to stop worrying about how fast you are and ask yourself this: "Can I keep the count at the table and play, making zero errors, while keeping up my appearance as a regular gambler?" If the answer is "yes" then who cares about anything else?
ycming said:
speed do play a bit part when you play heads up with the dealer.... you want to play as many hands as possible if you are a players with an edge
I much prefer a quick table than player slowing the game down regardless if they count or not ...
Ming
I much prefer a quick table than player slowing the game down regardless if they count or not ...
Ming
5/6d game is 48 rounds / shoe
figure 2 minutes per shuffle
if the dealer can deal out 6 shoes per hour deduct 12 min
60min-12min= 48 minutes of play time/hr
48 rounds x 6 shoes/hr = 288 rounds/ hr
48min x 60sec = 2,880 sec
288 rounds/ hr = 10 sec per round
So you count down 52 cards in 30 sec, do you mean to tell me you cant play a hand in 10 sec?
Then you need more practice in other aspects of card counting other then counting down a deck, such as deck estimating, TC conversion, side count adjustments etc..
BJC
I practice using the counting drills in CV, and I count down a 8d shoe at a speed of 21 secs per deck. That said, I agree with the other posters that what really matters is performance in a casino environment. Who cares if you can hit 15 seconds if you fall apart and make errors in game conditions?
Smart dealer selection makes 30-35 secs per deck plenty fast when one is learning.
Smart dealer selection makes 30-35 secs per deck plenty fast when one is learning.
I use speed counting. You don't like like a card counter when you use it,because you are only paying attention to your own hand. 6 decks starts at 27. You count the small cards, from 2-6. 27+2 small cards=29-1=28, so 28 is your new count.When you reach 31 and over,you have the edge over the casino. At 40 you take ins. Believe me, it works for me.
It takes me one min for me to countdown a deck. Hi and lo is good if there are only three players at the blackjack table.
Harry
Go Jet
It takes me one min for me to countdown a deck. Hi and lo is good if there are only three players at the blackjack table.
Harry
Go Jet
Last edited:
Harry1941 said:
I use speed counting. You don't like like a card counter when you use it,because you are only paying attention to your own hand. 6 decks starts at 27. You count the small cards, from 2-6. 27+2 small cards=29-1=28, so 28 is your new count.When you reach 31 and over,you have the edge over the casino. At 40 you take ins. Believe me, it works for me.
It takes me one min for me to countdown a deck. Hi and lo is good if there are only three players at the blackjack table.
Harry
Go Jet
It takes me one min for me to countdown a deck. Hi and lo is good if there are only three players at the blackjack table.
Harry
Go Jet
As for counting down a deck, as long as you can do it reasonably quickly (~20-30 seconds at best), and not have to hyperfocus while doing it, you're all set. Move on to other, much more important things and stop worrying about it. It's not a race.
Are we counting down in pairs or just single card? My HiLo pairs countdown is faster than my single-card countdown (<30s).
I recently started learning Zen Count which is more difficult. My fastest so far was about 38s. When it comes to counting down in pairs its alot more difficult for Zen and my time sucks thus far! (Of course, 100% accuracy)
I recently started learning Zen Count which is more difficult. My fastest so far was about 38s. When it comes to counting down in pairs its alot more difficult for Zen and my time sucks thus far! (Of course, 100% accuracy)
