Counting online

T

TheReach

Active Member
Hi

I'm new to BJ and wondered whether there is any point counting at online casinos? If it is why haven't card counters taken the casinos in question to the cleaners?

Any idea where I can find regular BJ tourneys online (other than global player which I use)?

Thanks in advance
 
No, counting isn't viable online... BUT you can get a big edge by hustling deposit bonuses, which is a science in itself. zg
 
This it what it says about shuffling on the Global Player website

When are the cards shuffled?
In the upper left-hand corner, you will see the discard box, where all the cards from the table end up after the round finishes. You can see the discard box fill up as the game progresses. When, after the end of a round, the discard box reaches a given size (or when the number of cards left in the shoe reaches a given minimum), the cards from the discard box are removed, shuffled together with the cards in the shoe, and placed back into the shoe. At this stage the discard box is empty

Why doesn't counting work in this scenario? Do the casinos do something to the shoe to stop it from working?

Cheers
 
I'd say 99% of on-line casinos "shuffle" the cards after every round. I'm not familiar with Global Player, however, I'd assume that the penetration is VERY low (possibly shuffling 1 deck into a 6 or 8 deck shoe) making card counting practically worthless.
 
TheReach said:
Do you think the same applies to tournaments where you are playing other players rather than the house?
Click to expand...
Most likely, BUT expert tourney play does NOT require counting. Since expert tourney play is based upon an entirely different principle, the top BJ tourney players typically do not count. zg
 
zengrifter said:
Most likely, BUT expert tourney play does NOT require counting. Since expert tourney play is based upon an entirely different principle, the top BJ tourney players typically do not count. zg
Click to expand...

Reach, if I had options to play tournaments, I'd love to get down to working on those skills. From what I can gather, there are two primary skills you need in tournaments:

#1 The ability to count each players chips and remember it
#2 The ability to analyze instantly what your optimum bet is especially towards the end of the round in the contest.

Basic Strategy is still pretty much used until it gets down to last couple of hands where you simply HAVE to come out ahead in chipcount else your part in the tournament will be over. That's when you see players doubling hard 17's and making other unorthodox plays.
 
Card Counting Online

TheReach;
I play at Global Player Casino daily and to answer your question about shuffle frequency I today observed a 5 player, 15 hand, 6 deck tournament counting the cards dealt without personally playing. 251 cards were dealt for an average of 2.78 cards per hand which falls within a normal range, the card discard tray never emptied which indicates 80% + penetration. Although I didn't count the cards dealt I recently played a 20 hand 6 deck tournament there and the shuffle occured after the 17th hand concluded.

zg;
Although I agree card counting in a tournament is low on the list of priorities especially compared to bet siz'ing, prior to the last 5 hands counting can be helpfull siz'ing bets or determing whether to hit, stand, double or split. During the last 5 hands keeping track of each opponents chip count is much more important than counting cards.
 
This is all really interesting stuff. I'm very much a novice at BJ but I have learnt basic strategy and and drilling myself at counting. Only just realised that BJ tourneys existed and would like to find out more. Is this a growing area of BJ? Are tourneys going to revolutionise BJ like they did in poker, especially online? Other than Global Player where else can I find sit & go BJ tourneys?

Also, I devour books so could you suggest the must read texts on BJ generally and tourney play?

Many thanks

:)
 
I don't know that much about the online tournaments but do know they have sit-n-goes. You can find out about all you want to know and more you haven't even though of if you go to:

https://www.blackjacktournaments.com/

It's a sister site to this one...or I should say Big Brother site since it was founded and populated long before this site got started.

TheReach said:
This is all really interesting stuff. I'm very much a novice at BJ but I have learnt basic strategy and and drilling myself at counting. Only just realised that BJ tourneys existed and would like to find out more. Is this a growing area of BJ? Are tourneys going to revolutionise BJ like they did in poker, especially online? Other than Global Player where else can I find sit & go BJ tourneys?

Also, I devour books so could you suggest the must read texts on BJ generally and tourney play?

Many thanks

:)
Click to expand...
 
BJ Tournaments

A must read is Stanford Wong's "Casino Tournament Strategy" although it may be confusing at first. The best PC software I am aware of is Casino Verite version 4, both can be purchased online at blackjackinfo.com's store. Ignore Wong's chapters on Craps and Horse racing, not the best info in the world in my opinion.
 
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In addition to online bonus hustling...

... I know poker tourney pros who consistently win and I know some BJ counters who are playing online live-action (non-tourney) hold'em four tables at once focusing on pocket pairs, they tell me that the edge at that is stronger than casino BJ counting. zg
 
I'd like to know more about the pocket pairs strategy. Any more info? Do they play limit or no limit? All PPs? I guess they trying to hit trips, full house or better?

Incidentally I emailed Global player about their shuffle policy and got this response

It depends on the BJ game you are playing, if the cards are re-shuffled
after each game. If you go to

(Dead link: http://www.global-player.com/help/playing_bj.html)

you find the rules for each different BJ game we offer. AC BJ does not
re-shuffle after each game. You always can see when the system
re-shuffled, because at that point the shoe in your upper left corner is
empty.

Please do not hesitate to contact us again, if we can be of further
assistance.

Best regards,

Patrice Ahrensburg


I played a 6 deck single player game and they shuffled at hand 59 which to my (novice) estimates suggests a very deep penetration indeed. I can't understand why card counting wouldn't work in this situation and also can't understand why the casinos would allow it! Very, very confused :confused:

TR
 
Ken should look at this...

TheReach said:
I played a 6 deck single player game and they shuffled at hand 59 which to my (novice) estimates suggests a very deep penetration indeed. I can't understand why card counting wouldn't work in this situation TR
Click to expand...
...it does sound countable. zg
 
I've been a player at Global for quite a while, but I've never really attacked this game. Back when I first signed up there, I noticed the potential for counting. However, I wasn't that interested in counting online, because the real online money was in bonuses instead. Now that the bonus world is a lot tougher, it's probably time to look closer at counting opportunities.

I did improve my results quite a bit in their monthly Gamemaster Tournament when I started card-counting during that competition.

Since they use proprietary software, it seems almost troubling that this game still exists. Is it fair? I don't know. There are a lot of bad blackjack players out there, but are there enough to offset the skilled players of this game? On the reassuring side, I played a lot of video poker there before they removed the 100+% games, and I hit several $4000 royals.

Whatever the status of their live games, there's no doubt that the blackjack tournaments they offer are the only place online to get real multi-player table-elimination-style blackjack tournaments. For that, they're to be commended.

Just to be complete, here's my affiliate link:
(Dead link: http://bh3.net/l.php/715) _Global Player Casino_
 
I just rechecked the shuffle and I must have missed one the first time I looked because they shuffled at hand 29 (6 deck, single player). I realise that this significantly changes the benefit of counting but not sure by how much.

Cheers

TR
 
29 hands effectively reduces your pene to 50% and makes the game no good for counting. BUT as we have stated, the real advantage for online non-tourney BJ is THE BONUSES. zg
 
My gut told me it was too good to be true :cry: Incidentally what's the minimum penetration that you need for counting to be effective?

CHeers
 
I think 75% for shoe games unless there is some special rule accompanying the game which makes it very favorable. As to what penetration is needed for double or single deck I'm not sure.
 
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