Craps ¨fire bet¨

Dyepaintball12

Dyepaintball12

Well-Known Member
At Casino Windsor where I play, there is a bet on the craps table called the Fire Bet. I am not sure if it exsists elsewhere.

Anway, what it is is a bet taken at the beginning of a new shooters roll. It can be anywhere from $1 to the table max, and is placed in a little circle behind the pass line.

If the bet is taken:

If the shooter establishes and then makes 4 different points, the bet is paid 25 to 1.

If the shooter establishes and then makes 5 different points, the bet is paid 250 to 1.

If the shooter establishes and then makes all 6 different points, the bet is paid 1000 to 1.

I am wondering if someone could find the house edge for this.

Also, Im not sure if anyone on here practices Controlled throws, but I am wondering about that too. For example, i am wondering the house edge on this bet if the shooter has a 1:6.5, 1:7, 1:7.5 or higher SRR (Seven-to-Rolls Ratio)

Thanks alot guys,

David
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
I've heard a lot of different opinions on the dice control question. I have no clue whether or not it's possible. If it is, you're probably better off betting pass/dont pass with full odds, and maybe betting 6 or 8.
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
As far as the Fire Bet goes, I've seen it up there at Windsor...it's really one of those goofy prop bets that have a jackpot-type payoff but really suck for value. BUT, at $1 a pop, I imagine it's comparable to the jackpot bet for Caribbean Stud or what not. I don't know the odds though--sorry bout that.

I would caution that you don't get too wrapped up in the SRR...it's more or less a measuring stick that dice controllers use to compare themselves to each other. I imagine one would say they are a successful DC if their SRR is greater than 6 (odds of rolling a 7 is 1 in 6, as I'm sure you well know), and striving to increase that number...

But the true mark of a DC (if you believe in it) is one who not only avoids the 7, but one who is able to consistently bang out the numbers he/she is betting on. For instance, certain sets of the dice favor different numbers & combinations. If you are tuned to the inside numbers set (5,6,8,9), outside numbers set (4,5,9,10), hardways set, etc.; you, as a DC, want to be betting on the numbers you are attempting to favor. If you're betting 6&8, but on the outside numbers set, come out set, etc., you're not doing yourself any favors...

That being said, you could have a great roll with an average SRR of 6 or less--nothing wrong with banging out multiple 7s when you are coming out, right? So, imagine a roll where you are "controlling" and have 3 7's on the first come out, make a point in 4 rolls, a couple more 7's on the next come out, etc. A highly successful roll if you are betting correctly, but perhaps not exhibiting a SRR > 6...

So I haven't really answered your question on whether a DC with a better SRR would be effective on the Fire Bet, but I do say that you shouldn't get caught up in SRR. However, IN MY OPINION, a truly successful DC is more concerned about making correct bets that are tied to what they can tune into with the dice... e.g. placing numbers that they are targeting with a particular set. Of course, pass line with 10x odds (I think you can go that high at Windsor) ain't half bad either!

Good luck...but don't count on DC to pay the bills!
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Golden Nugget removed their Fire Bets after the controlled dice boys hit it hard... and then they bared Wong from craps. zg
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
zengrifter said:
Golden Nugget removed their Fire Bets after the controlled dice boys hit it hard... and then they bared Wong from craps. zg
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It doesn't make any sense- a dice controller is going to be better off playing the classic Right/Wrong bets. Can't see any benefit to screwing around with a prop with really bad odds off the top.
 
Dyepaintball12

Dyepaintball12

Well-Known Member
Well if you can repeatedly throw number after number that is not a 7, you may find $$ in placing some of the numbers that you throw alot, along with betting the pass line w/ odds.

But I was thinking that if you really could go decently long without sevening out then you may be able to make a profit from the fire bet.

it seems I may have been right if what Zen said is true, which I believe it to be.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Automatic Monkey said:
It doesn't make any sense- a dice controller is going to be better off playing the classic Right/Wrong bets. Can't see any benefit to screwing around with a prop with really bad odds off the top.
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Most of the controlled dice boys focus on not rolling 7s, so after the point is made they try to cover all the numbers and take odds. zg
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
Most of the controlled dice boys focus on not rolling 7s, so after the point is made they try to cover all the numbers and take odds. zg
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I (respectfully) don't buy that. :flame:

In order for a controller to want to cover all of the numbers on the layout, they would either be making multiple come bets or placing all of the numbers. My personal opinion/experience has seen "dice controllers" lean towards pass line with place bets...but that, of course, doesn't rule out a guy making 6 come bets after the come out (but that is not the most efficient way to get all the numbers covered). If one places all of the numbers, there is no dice set that can target both inside and outside numbers while reducing the probability of a 7...which means a controller would be bopping around through multiple sets just to hit 4s and 10s as well as more favorable #s like 6 & 8?

In my opinion, dice controlling should equate to a targeted approach of particular numbers...which reduces your exposure on the table (bets out) while maximizing return (multiple hits on those bets).

Going back to the fire bet...the odds were a lot worse than I thought (as shown on Wizard of Odds)! Think about this--in order to win a fire bet, shooter must make at least 4 DIFFERENT points...not just 4 points.

good luck
 
person1125

person1125

Well-Known Member
ChefJJ said:
Going back to the fire bet...the odds were a lot worse than I thought (as shown on Wizard of Odds)! Think about this--in order to win a fire bet, shooter must make at least 4 DIFFERENT points...not just 4 points.

good luck
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yeah 0.88% chance !!! yikes less than a 1% chance you will make the 4 let alone make it to 6. (but someone will beat the odds - that's why people play it) Also for only a $1 bet and then say a $5 pass line bet it's pretty cheap - it would be fun just to try you are only going to lose $6 bucks.
 
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