Dear Atlantic City,

Tarzan

Tarzan

Banned
How else do you start something like this? "Dear Atlantic City, " "To whom it may concern in Atlantic City, "...

I overheard a dealer some time back say, "Where are all the blackjack players?" in an AC casino. Let me tell you where they are all at! They are in Pennsylvania!!!! The greed and stupidity of AC casinos has caught up to them and they have laid off employees and shut down entire pits, wondering why they are not doing any volume of business.

Meanwhile, in Pennsylvania casinos they are doing a booming business. Little places that are a fraction of the size of AC casinos have 10 times the blackjack players. The tables are packed in. The high limit pits are all busy with no dealers standing around. Those Asians are slinging around stacks of cash like it's going to go out of style or something!

"Why is this happening?!?", you may say to yourself, AC... "Gee, I just can't figure it out!", you may be thinking. Let me give you a clue. You offer a crappy 8 deck game of blackjack where the dealer hits a soft 17 and don't offer surrender. Sure, this means an extra gouge on the customers but they are too stupid to know the difference, right? WRONG!!!! You offer a crappy game with lots of additional house advantage to grind the customers harder and they have noticed it. Not only do Pennsylvania casinos use 6 decks and don't hit 17 but they offer a surrender option! Even with the better rules, the players are getting clobbered in the overall but their money is lasting longer, which makes them happy and keeps them coming back.


The loss of business means shutting down entire blackjack pits in AC. So much for the brilliant idea that you were going to make more money faster by gouging out the gamblers for a little more. You merely devised a means of taking the same amount of money faster, which generates disgruntled gamblers and achieves nothing for the long haul. You see, typically gamblers bring "x" amount of dollars to a casino to play on. If it lasts them a bit longer, they are happy and keep coming back. With good rules they might even win once in a great while. You clean them out in a hurry and they wander off with a bad taste in their mouth and are ready, eager and willing to seek out other gambling venues. They find that PA casinos are much nicer to them and you have lost a huge volume of business to PA casinos. That extra gouge on the casino patrons was maybe not such a brilliant idea and has backfired if it costs you 50% or more of your volume of business. You have lost money from your pure, unadulterated greed plain and simple. This is why you have a hard time getting a spot at a blackjack table in PA casinos no matter what time of day or day of the week it is more often than not... it's just a better game.

They are racking it up and raking it in... in the meantime you are left shutting down tables and whining about how life sucks for you. Hey, I have a great idea you bunch of dumbasses... how about if you have a 12 deck blackjack game on an autoshuffler where blackjack pays 6:5, and the dealer hits 17 but the player also loses on the push with the dealer! Then you can go ahead and shut down the entire casino altogether and be done with it!!!!!
 
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kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
Tarzan, the funny thing is that for several years, many players, myself included thought that Pa gaming would force AC to be more competitive and adopt better rules to try to compete for their 'old' customers. Instead of trying to compete for customer or attract new customers, they just decided to try and bleed the few they had left. I am truly stunned that not one exec said hey this isn't working somewhere along the line before it got to this. I don't follow it as closely as I used to when I lived on the east coast, but I am just amazed that they sat back and did nothing but watch. Even came up with excuses other than what they were. For a while they said it was the smoking ban that was doing them in. Then the downturn in the economy.

I thought I read somewhere in the last month that Pa had moved into the number 2 position in gaming revenue in the US, surpassing several states that had more casinos than they did, and where actually pretty close to Nevada, which I found amazing as Nevada has more than 10 times the casinos. If that is the case (and I can't remember where I saw that article to confirm it), you would think that other locations would closely examine Pa in an attempt to figure out just what they are doing right. Apparently not. :confused::laugh:
 
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I

itrack

Well-Known Member
What ploppy cares about whether or not the table is H17/S17 or offers surrender? In my experience...about 3 tops? Maybe the ploppies in AC are different than everywhere else in the country though?
For a person that brings 100 dollars to the casino, the difference that H17/S17 is going to make on them is practically nothing. A ploppy would never play enough hands to see the statistical difference.
Now the number of decks on the other hand, I can understand. I think it's commonly understood by ploppies that the lower the number of decks, the better the odds are for the player. I've seen a ton of people walk up to a 6:5 single deck table and say, "Lets play this table, single deck has better odds" while totally not even noticing the 6:5 :cry:Maybe AC should try out some 4 deck shoes, or at least 6D....
 
jaygruden

jaygruden

Well-Known Member
Tarzan said:
How else do you start something like this? "Dear Atlantic City, " "To whom it may concern in Atlantic City, "...

I overheard a dealer some time back say, "Where are all the blackjack players?" in an AC casino. Let me tell you where they are all at! They are in Pennsylvania!!!! The greed and stupidity of AC casinos has caught up to them and they have laid off employees and shut down entire pits, wondering why they are not doing any volume of business.

Meanwhile, in Pennsylvania casinos they are doing a booming business. Little places that are a fraction of the size of AC casinos have 10 times the blackjack players. The tables are packed in. The high limit pits are all busy with no dealers standing around. Those Asians are slinging around stacks of cash like it's going to go out of style or something!

"Why is this happening?!?", you may say to yourself, AC... "Gee, I just can't figure it out!", you may be thinking. Let me give you a clue. You offer a crappy 8 deck game of blackjack where the dealer hits a soft 17 and don't offer surrender. Sure, this means an extra gouge on the customers but they are too stupid to know the difference, right? WRONG!!!! You offer a crappy game with lots of additional house advantage to grind the customers harder and they have noticed it. Not only do Pennsylvania casinos use 6 decks and don't hit 17 but they offer a surrender option! Even with the better rules, the players are getting clobbered in the overall but their money is lasting longer, which makes them happy and keeps them coming back.


The loss of business means shutting down entire blackjack pits in AC. So much for the brilliant idea that you were going to make more money faster by gouging out the gamblers for a little more. You merely devised a means of taking the same amount of money faster, which generates disgruntled gamblers and achieves nothing for the long haul. You see, typically gamblers bring "x" amount of dollars to a casino to play on. If it lasts them a bit longer, they are happy and keep coming back. With good rules they might even win once in a great while. You clean them out in a hurry and they wander off with a bad taste in their mouth and are ready, eager and willing to seek out other gambling venues. They find that PA casinos are much nicer to them and you have lost a huge volume of business to PA casinos. That extra gouge on the casino patrons was maybe not such a brilliant idea and has backfired if it costs you 50% or more of your volume of business. You have lost money from your pure, unadulterated greed plain and simple. This is why you have a hard time getting a spot at a blackjack table in PA casinos no matter what time of day or day of the week it is more often than not... it's just a better game.

They are racking it up and raking it in... in the meantime you are left shutting down tables and whining about how life sucks for you. Hey, I have a great idea you bunch of dumbasses... how about if you have a 12 deck blackjack game on an autoshuffler where blackjack pays 6:5, and the dealer hits 17 but the player also loses on the push with the dealer! Then you can go ahead and shut down the entire casino altogether and be done with it!!!!!
Click to expand...

x2....agree. I even hear plops at PA tables talking about how bad the games are in AC and that's why they come to PA joints instead. Many likely don't know why but they have heard from others who do know so they believe it. The AC execs don't get it.
 
N

ningtong88

Active Member
kewljason said:
Tarzan, the funny thing is that for several years, many players, myself included thought that Pa gaming would force AC to be more competitive and adopt better rules to try to compete for their 'old' customers. Instead of trying to compete for customer or attract new customers, they just decided to try and bleed the few they had left. I am truly stunned that not one exec said hey this isn't working somewhere along the line before it got to this. I don't follow it as closely as I used to when I lived on the east coast, but I am just amazed that they sat back and did nothing but watch. Even came up with excuses other than what they were. For a while they said it was the smoking ban that was doing them in. Then the downturn in the economy.

I thought I read somewhere in the last month that Pa had moved into the number 2 position in gaming revenue in the US, surpassing several states that had more casinos than they did, and where actually pretty close to Nevada, which I found amazing as Nevada has more than 10 times the casinos. If that is the case (and I can't remember where I saw that article to confirm it), you would think that other locations would closely examine Pa in an attempt to figure out just what they are doing right. Apparently not. :confused::laugh:
Click to expand...
How do you know pa gaming revenue went up because of bj, could it be other games? pa eeconomic, and many other factors?
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
ningtong88 said:
How do you know pa gaming revenue went up because of bj, could it be other games? pa eeconomic, and many other factors?
Click to expand...
I never said it was all because of blackjack, although I suspect those numbers are available if you want to look. My point was that whenever there is one business model that is performing well, the usual procedure is that competing segments, usually take a close look and try figure out why and copy that model. It wouldn't take much looking to see that table games rules is one of the differences that may be contributing to the success. Even if you did take a look, might not tell the whole story. Example, case of husband and wife or even two friends. One plays only slots, the other some slots, some table games. The second party wants to go to Pa because he feels like he wins more often there than he did in AC, although he hasn't figured out why. So now Pa gets, and ac loses, his table action, his slot action and his wife or friends slot action.
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
I read PA is now the second highest gaming revenue state. A good portion of that is due to the high tax rate.

AC/NJ was brain dead from the beginning. Remember all the talk about gaming money being used to revitalize AC? Well, it's still the same dump it was 20-30 years ago, once you get a block off the BW.
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
Actually, I believe that the CORRECT factoid is that Pennsylvania Tax Revenue to the state is the 2nd highest in the nation;
but that is largely due to the tax rate being about double what it is in Nevada, and perhaps 150% of what it is in most states.
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member

Economically speaking, the future is highly toxic for A.C. because, while it still draws crowds in
the summer, [as a (beach) resort destination]; once New York, Massachusetts, and Ohio join with
Delaware and Pennsylvania in providing casino gambling for the masses, who will trudge through
the sludgy snow to get to Atlantic City in the "off-season"
 
BookerPA

BookerPA

Well-Known Member
21forme said:
I read PA is now the second highest gaming revenue state. A good portion of that is due to the high tax rate.

AC/NJ was brain dead from the beginning. Remember all the talk about gaming money being used to revitalize AC? Well, it's still the same dump it was 20-30 years ago, once you get a block off the BW.
Click to expand...
AC has a boardwalK!!! I don't believe you. Next you're going to tell me they have an ocean and a beach. :grin:
 
J

Jacob

Well-Known Member
.

BookerPA said:
AC has a boardwalK!!! I don't believe you. Next you're going to tell me they have an ocean and a beach. :grin:
Click to expand...
AC has much more than what you mentioned above. Crimes --- I tell you AC has. Crimes turn "visitors" away. AC has 18ish old muggers who have come from ghettos,

(i.e., Camden, Newark, Bronx, West kensington, Hunting park, Brewerytown, and most of West Philly, etc)

not to gamble, but to rob gamblers. These youngsters finally find out an easier way to make money--- that is --- it's much more profitable to rob rich gamblers than to rob banks :mad:.
 
Gamblor

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
Jacob said:
AC has much more than what you mentioned above. Crimes --- I tell you AC has. Crimes turn "visitors" away. AC has 18ish old muggers who have come from ghettos,

(i.e., Camden, Newark, Bronx, West kensington, Hunting park, Brewerytown, and most of West Philly, etc)

not to gamble, but to rob gamblers. These youngsters finally find out an easier way to make money--- that is --- it's much more profitable to rob rich gamblers than to rob banks :mad:.
Click to expand...
They don't even have to come from that far away. I'm sure plenty of them live in good ol' AC.
 
M

Machinist

Well-Known Member
When you say 18 year old kids, I can't believe that their parents would allow such stuff.
Why would these caucasian kids do this, or are they mexican kids, or indians, or asians???
What am I missing

Mac
 
J

Jacob

Well-Known Member
Gamblor said:
They don't even have to come from that far away. I'm sure plenty of them live in good ol' AC.
Click to expand...
You're right except the local extreme poor kids are not hardcore muggers. They might rob you, but they generally don't murder you;).

Machinist said:
When you say 18 year old kids, I can't believe that their parents would allow such stuff.
Why would these caucasian kids do this, or are they mexican kids, or indians, or asians???
What am I missing

Mac
Click to expand...
You're missing the local news which reported that 3 18ish kids (from Camden's Ghetto) robbed, carjacked, & shot 2 Taj's "visitors." Nothing their parents can do when those kids are gangsters. Poverty is the root of crimes such as robbing, carjacking, murdering, etc in casino lands...:cry::sad::sad:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/atlantic-city-carjacking-suspects-taj-mahal-carjacking-130230288.html
 
Tarzan

Tarzan

Banned
We can't say so are as clueless as you

Machinist said:
When you say 18 year old kids, I can't believe that their parents would allow such stuff.
Why would these caucasian kids do this, or are they mexican kids, or indians, or asians???
What am I missing

Mac
Click to expand...
I would be called a racist if I pointed out the specific ethnic group that is responsible for 95% of this type of crime. We are required to ignore that little factoid to remain politically correct and avoid following the path of the AutoMonkey. We must remain as clueless as you are and perhaps assume that these violent criminals that lacked any proper upbringing are likely well educated caucasian kids from some of the more affluent areas nearby...
 
T

tthree

Banned
Jacob said:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/atlantic-city-carjacking-suspects-taj-mahal-carjacking-130230288.html
Click to expand...
They look like three black men to me. If articles and newscasts report the race of white, asian or whoever else, it is racism not to report the race of black perps. We are all equal aren't we? Why do people continue to believe any group is inferior and need special treatment to make up for it. I know I don't. I don't see racism fading away until this soft racism comes to an end. I know the first and most difficult step I have when tutoring minorities is to tear down the barrier in their minds that they are smart for a minority. Once they learn they are simply smart and should excel like anyone else they rise to the higher expectation. This soft racism is holding them back.
 
T

Thunder

Well-Known Member
Let's face it. AC has an image problem. When my sister prefers to go to another beach in the summer with her husband even though I told her that in AC I'd make sure she'd get a comped room with all her food comped and show tickets to boot, thus saving her 100's of $$$ there's a problem. If we want to help solve this problem, I suggest we start by buying the Hilton. I think we could get it now for $30,000,000.
 
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