Deck estimation for balanced count

[Daggers]

I'm confused here. When using a balanced count and diving by the number of decks that gives the true count. But in some cases it is more advantages to divide by half decks. I always thought that meant that if the count if 12 and there are 3 and a half decks left, then the count would be 12 / 3.5 = 3.4 or truncated it would be 3 instead of just 12 / 3 using full deck method. But i read something recently that made it seem like with half deck estimation i divide by 7 with 3 and a half decks remaining, making the true count 12 / 7 = 1.7 or 1. This to me seems like there can be a big difference between the true counts at times depending on which way is used. Which way is the correct way and if you would do (12 / 7 = 1.7 or 1) instead of (12 / 7 = 1.7 or 1), when would it be better to use it?

 

[dark_hatchling]

bump

 

[HockeXpert]

I'm confused here. When using a balanced count and diving by the number of decks that gives the true count. But in some cases it is more advantages to divide by half decks. I always thought that meant that if the count if 12 and there are 3 and a half decks left, then the count would be 12 / 3.5 = 3.4 or truncated it would be 3 instead of just 12 / 3 using full deck method. But i read something recently that made it seem like with half deck estimation i divide by 7 with 3 and a half decks remaining, making the true count 12 / 7 = 1.7 or 1. This to me seems like there can be a big difference between the true counts at times depending on which way is used. Which way is the correct way and if you would do (12 / 7 = 1.7 or 1) instead of (12 / 7 = 1.7 or 1), when would it be better to use it?

If dividing the rc by one deck yields a tc per deck then dividing the rc by half decks yields a tc by half a deck. To get the tc per deck multiply the tc per half deck by two.

I think you are getting confused because you aren't using whole numbers as your divisor. In your example, rc 12 with 3.5 decks remaining, if you divide by 12 by 3 you get a tc of 4.

 

[Daggers]

what's tc per deck and tc per half deck? isn't tc just for everything that's left undealt?

 

[Daggers]

ohh, so lets say the RC is 21 with 3.5 decks remaining. With full deck estimation the TC would be 7 and with half deck it would be 6 right? but when is it more advantages to use half deck or is it always better?

 

[Xenophon]

This causes alot of confusion when learning about true count adjustments.

The indices for the true count that you deviate from basic strategy (or change you bet) are calculated using either count per decks remaining or count per half decks remaining.

So if the indices for your count are developed using decks remaining your denominator's would look like this for a six deck shoe:

Top of shoe whole decks remaining: 6, 5.5, 5, 4.5, 4, 3.5, 3, 2.5, 2, 1.5, 1, .5, 0

If you are OK with less precision of play (and less edge to your game) you could even get "sloppy" and round to whole decks remaining:

Top of shoe whole decks remaining: 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

Next: If the indices for your count are developed using half decks remaining your denominator's would look like this for a six deck shoe:

Top of shoe half decks remaining: 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

You can't just decide which one to use with any count. You have to use the true count adjustment that the indices were calculated with.

Personally, I like count per half decks remaining because I am always dividing by a whole number. I don't like dividing by 4.5, 3.5, etc..

 

[HockeXpert]

what's tc per deck and tc per half deck? isn't tc just for everything that's left undealt?

When using a balanced count, the rc must be constantly converted to tc (count per deck). Way back when 8 track players came out, gas was $0.15 a gallon and dinosaurs roamed the earth, there was nothing but sd bj. Once casinos got wise to counting, one of the "counter"-measures was to increase the number of decks (this is where the famous movie line, "no one can count six decks" came from). Well in turn, counters started using this rc to tc conversion by dividing the rc by the # of decks remaining.

When we talk about tc, we are talking about the average rc per deck remaining to be dealt. There is no such thing as tc per half deck. I used that terminology for comparison purposes and to illustrate my point only.

The only reason that we divide by half decks is for better tc accuracy as the number of decks remaining decreases (past half way). If you know that exactly 1.3 decks remain with a rc of 13, the tc is exactly 10 (13/1.3). If you use decks remaining to get the tc, the tc is 13 (13/1). If you use half decks, the tc is 8 ((13/3)*2)=8.7 when floored = 8). 8 is closer to 10 than 13. No one said this was perfect but it achieves a truer tc estimation.

I hope this all makes sense.

HockeXpert

 

[Daggers]

yes, now it does. so the indices generated has to be all different depending on whole deck or half deck estimation. Can the demo for CVData do this?

 

[dark_hatchling]

sorry in advance for the stupid question..

so was the Illustrious 18 developed using whole deck or half deck estimates?

 

[dark_hatchling]

wait hold on..it doesnt really matter for my point of understanding, i think

So if we're dividing by half decks remain..then we just multiply our product by 2 to get the TC i would use for an index play, right?

IE:

Ins = 3
RC=15
whole decks remaining = 3
TC = 5
INS = YES

RC = 15
half decks remain = 6
TC = 2.5(x2), which is 5

 

[HockeXpert]

sorry in advance for the stupid question..

so was the Illustrious 18 developed using whole deck or half deck estimates?

Whole deck.

wait hold on..it doesnt really matter for my point of understanding, i think

So if we're dividing by half decks remain..then we just multiply our product by 2 to get the TC i would use for an index play, right?

IE:

Ins = 3
RC=15
whole decks remaining = 3
TC = 5
INS = YES

RC = 15
half decks remain = 6
TC = 2.5(x2), which is 5

You got it. That's the method I use. There are probably other methods but I always convert to TC per deck remaining.