dedicated beginner needing advice

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davey189

New Member
hello everyone, my name is david.
i just joined this forum because i have almost completely memorized basic strategy and i always score a 94% or higher on the hitorstand.net website strategy game(difficult mode) and typically score a 100% within one of 3 attempts(not sure of how useful the website is, but it seems legit to me), so i would hope i have attained decent understanding of the strategy.

i have dabbled in card counting using the hi lo system. my count is usually precise with an occasional 1 or 2 number error.

i will continue to practice until i have completely mastered basic strategy and can keep count more consistently with a greater quantity of hands.

however, i do have an issue that i need to clarify.
i have no clue towards altering basic strategy during a high or low count and would like to request a few things regarding my problem:

1. a link that i may have overlooked in the FAQ section or anywhere on the web, or just a simple, yet relatively thorough answer from someone experienced.

2. a book or two that would help answer all my questions towards counting. i was looking at blackjack bluebook II. is that a good one or not? and what are some other good books?

sorry for my life story guys. i have just found myself fascinated by blackjack and wanted to make myself clear on my current knowledge and the knowledge i plan to pursue next.

thanks in advance
~david
 
Southpaw

Southpaw

Well-Known Member
davey189 said:
hello everyone, my name is david.
i just joined this forum because i have almost completely memorized basic strategy and i always score a 94% or higher on the hitorstand.net website strategy game(difficult mode) and typically score a 100% within one of 3 attempts(not sure of how useful the website is, but it seems legit to me), so i would hope i have attained decent understanding of the strategy.

i have dabbled in card counting using the hi lo system. my count is usually precise with an occasional 1 or 2 number error.

i will continue to practice until i have completely mastered basic strategy and can keep count more consistently with a greater quantity of hands.

however, i do have an issue that i need to clarify.
i have no clue towards altering basic strategy during a high or low count and would like to request a few things regarding my problem:

1. a link that i may have overlooked in the FAQ section or anywhere on the web, or just a simple, yet relatively thorough answer from someone experienced.

2. a book or two that would help answer all my questions towards counting. i was looking at blackjack bluebook II. is that a good one or not? and what are some other good books?

sorry for my life story guys. i have just found myself fascinated by blackjack and wanted to make myself clear on my current knowledge and the knowledge i plan to pursue next.

thanks in advance
~david
Click to expand...
In the 8th post in this thread ( http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?p=206470 ), I generated the indices for all plays for Hi-Lo for the specified game (it is a pretty typical game). An index is the pivot point where you would play your hand differently depending on if the true count is below or above the index for that play.

For each play there are ONLY two possible moves that you would EVER want to consider. If the true count is above OR EQUAL to the index number for the play you make one move, while you do the other when the true count is below the index.

DO NOT TRY TO LEARN ALL THE INDICES THAT I SUPPLIED YOU WITH!!!!!!!! Many of them are useless, for all intents and purposes. Learn the important ones first. According to Schlesinger, you can glean 80% of the possible advantage just by learning the 18 most important ones (the illustrious 18 or I18).

On a related note, a little tip that I think all knew players should hear. Don't bother trying to learn a more complex count such as a level II count or one that requires side-counting aces. Stick with Hi-Lo. I play a level II count and it was a royal pain in the backside to get good with it.

In terms of books, if you could only buy one, I'd recommend Arnold Snyder's Blackbelt in Blackjack.

P.S. --

If the True count is higher than or EQUAL to the index, then STANDING, DOUBLING, SPLITTING and taking insurance are more favorable.
If the True count is lower than the index, then HITTING, NOT splitting, Not doubling, and not taking insurance are favorable.

SP
 
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Shoofly

Well-Known Member
Alternative Counting System

As a new counter, you probably have enough things to think about without trying to make the conversion to TC. If that is the case, I would suggest an unbalanced count, such as KO or Red 7. If you take Southpaw's advice and read "Blackbelt in Blackjack", Arnold Snyder provides detailed instructions on how to use Red 7. He also provides pivot points for BS deviations, as Red 7 is a running count system, and you can't easily use I18.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
Scoring 94% on Hit and Stand is really not a very high score. Are you playing it at the fastest level? Even at the highest speed, most players will get 100% almost everytime out. The exceptions being that the software has some bugs when playing soft hands.
Keep practicing, and I'd recommend you get Blackjack Bluebook 2. Its the simplest, and best book I've come across for new players.
 
D

davey189

New Member
you should avoid using your real names in these forums. David is still a common name, but better conceal it.
Click to expand...
i apologize, will not happen again

Scoring 94% on Hit and Stand is really not a very high score. Are you playing it at the fastest level? Even at the highest speed, most players will get 100% almost everytime out. The exceptions being that the software has some bugs when playing soft hands.
Keep practicing, and I'd recommend you get Blackjack Bluebook 2. Its the simplest, and best book I've come across for new players.
Click to expand...
i believe i will go with that book because KISS is also an unbalanced count.
and as far as the speed goes, it takes me a aplit second to make a decision(with the exception of a couple soft totals i need to get down pat).
i understand that my current ability isnt great, i just figured it was ok for my first 3 days ever practicing, but maybe not :laugh:

and are there any other popular drill games on the web that you may know about and would recommend?

and thanks everyone else for the advice. blackjack really intrigues me so i will keep practicing as much as possible like i am recommended.
 
Southpaw

Southpaw

Well-Known Member
davey189 said:
and are there any other popular drill games on the web that you may know about and would recommend?
Click to expand...
Buy CVBJ from this site's store. You won't regret it. The practice and the drills that the program offers are priceless.

SP
 
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matt21

Well-Known Member
Hi davey
good luck with your journey!

Here are some tips for you:

1. I agree with others here, you need to know 100% of your BS combinations, and once you have identified the index plays, then you need to know those 100% as well, but I would also suggest just starting with the I18, and yes they give you 80% of all the advantages to be gained from index play (taking into account both the extra edge from the strategy deviation AND the frequency at which the situation is likely to occur).
2. Work very hard and diligently. Don't get discouraged if sometimes you forget things or your counting speed slows down or whatever. The more you practice the better you will become in the long run. Don't stress out if you are having a bad day. Lance Armstrong trained all the day and didn't worry about bad days. If you put in the hours, then the results will come. In other words, training/preparation time is +EV time.
3. Get some of the books that people have mentioned here.
4. Buy some of the Casino Verite products - they are very good.
5. Go and play at the casino sometimes with small bets - this will keep you motivated and 'wet' your appetite for your training.
6. I would also recommend a Level1 system - much better to have a simple one and not make any mistakes. Particularly if you are going to be playing shoe games rather than single-deck (SD) or double-deck (DD) games.
7. Have an adequate bankroll - at least $5,000 (that would allow to spread something like $5-$60) and understand the concepts of EV, standard deviation.
8. Know what factors distinguish a good game from a bad game - penetration, rules, heat, number of other players, promotions.

Hopefully that will get you started. Good luck :)
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
matt21 said:
Hi davey
good luck with your journey!

Here are some tips for you:

1. I agree with others here, you need to know 100% of your BS combinations, and once you have identified the index plays, then you need to know those 100% as well, but I would also suggest just starting with the I18, and yes they give you 80% of all the advantages to be gained from index play (taking into account both the extra edge from the strategy deviation AND the frequency at which the situation is likely to occur).
2. Work very hard and diligently. Don't get discouraged if sometimes you forget things or your counting speed slows down or whatever. The more you practice the better you will become in the long run. Don't stress out if you are having a bad day. Lance Armstrong trained all the day and didn't worry about bad days. If you put in the hours, then the results will come. In other words, training/preparation time is +EV time.
3. Get some of the books that people have mentioned here.
4. Buy some of the Casino Verite products - they are very good.
5. Go and play at the casino sometimes with small bets - this will keep you motivated and 'wet' your appetite for your training.
6. I would also recommend a Level1 system - much better to have a simple one and not make any mistakes. Particularly if you are going to be playing shoe games rather than single-deck (SD) or double-deck (DD) games.
7. Have an adequate bankroll - at least $5,000 (that would allow to spread something like $5-$60) and understand the concepts of EV, standard deviation.
8. Know what factors distinguish a good game from a bad game - penetration, rules, heat, number of other players, promotions.

Hopefully that will get you started. Good luck :)
Click to expand...
Some real good advise here from pretty smart fellow. ;) I particularly like number 4 and 6.

Qfits products are a must for anyone even semi-serious about counting. Newer players often think it too great an expense, but the truth it they are they are an exceptional value and resource. They will provide answers to many of your questions.

I also feel very strongly that a level 1 count is sufficent for most players needs. I think far too many new, casual and parttime players learn level 2 and 3 counts unnecesarily. A level 1 count will suffice for all but the most serious and experinced players, myself included. :) Playing accurate is much greater value than the small gain played by a higher level count. Of course this is just a matter of opinion. :eek: We have had many discussions on this topic. :laugh:
 
D

davey189

New Member
Hi davey
good luck with your journey!

Here are some tips for you:

1. I agree with others here, you need to know 100% of your BS combinations, and once you have identified the index plays, then you need to know those 100% as well, but I would also suggest just starting with the I18, and yes they give you 80% of all the advantages to be gained from index play (taking into account both the extra edge from the strategy deviation AND the frequency at which the situation is likely to occur).
2. Work very hard and diligently. Don't get discouraged if sometimes you forget things or your counting speed slows down or whatever. The more you practice the better you will become in the long run. Don't stress out if you are having a bad day. Lance Armstrong trained all the day and didn't worry about bad days. If you put in the hours, then the results will come. In other words, training/preparation time is +EV time.
3. Get some of the books that people have mentioned here.
4. Buy some of the Casino Verite products - they are very good.
5. Go and play at the casino sometimes with small bets - this will keep you motivated and 'wet' your appetite for your training.
6. I would also recommend a Level1 system - much better to have a simple one and not make any mistakes. Particularly if you are going to be playing shoe games rather than single-deck (SD) or double-deck (DD) games.
7. Have an adequate bankroll - at least $5,000 (that would allow to spread something like $5-$60) and understand the concepts of EV, standard deviation.
8. Know what factors distinguish a good game from a bad game - penetration, rules, heat, number of other players, promotions.

Hopefully that will get you started. Good luck
Click to expand...
thanks matt. im glad you took the time to type all that to give me a thorough answer:)
i have been reading renzeys blackjack bluebook (which looks purplish to me:laugh:) and have gotten up to the part about the kiss count and have been able to keep count on kiss II in a single deck within 30 sec(as recommended by renzey). i plan on reading about deck penetration and that kind of stuff mentioned later in the book before i get into any more counting methods. the ability to count isnt my concern, its actually being able to pull off counting in a casino and knowing which table to pick and whatnot(basically what you said in #8).

and ill take everyone's advice and buy CVBJ soon. i dont mind investing in blackjack. i actually enjoy the game and my interest isnt founded on a lackadaisical pursuit of easy money.

like i said, learning to count isnt particularly hard for me, so are there any books that go in depth about actually being able to pull of being a counter in a casino and all the fancy stuff(once again, #8), rather than solely on counting methods?

thanks for the help guys.
 
M

matt21

Well-Known Member
davey189 said:
the ability to count isnt my concern, its actually being able to pull off counting in a casino and knowing which table to pick and whatnot(basically what you said in #8).

and ill take everyone's advice and buy CVBJ soon. i dont mind investing in blackjack. i actually enjoy the game and my interest isnt founded on a lackadaisical pursuit of easy money.

like i said, learning to count isnt particularly hard for me, so are there any books that go in depth about actually being able to pull of being a counter in a casino and all the fancy stuff(once again, #8), rather than solely on counting methods?
Click to expand...
Buying CVD and CVCX as well as CVBJ (I think QFIT does seem good package pricing on those) will allow you to experiment with how different game rules, penetration, # of players at the table, bet ramps - will impact on your hourly EV. So that will take care of a big part of 8. When I was counting a lot, spending some time on that aspect, helped me to identify the real EV drivers and in turn focused my attention on the type of playing conditions that I should be seeking (my hourly EV probably doubled as a result at that time without increasing BR!).

Understanding exposure to heat - a lot of that will come with playing, and you can also learn a lot from just reading posts on the forum here. You will find observations on real play situations that have taken place recently.

With promotions - once you have understand the concepts of probability & statistics and how it applies to BJ, then you will be able to figure out the value of certain promotions and in turn develop approaches on how to best attack them. Certain promotions can significantly enhance your counting EV.

In terms of books, many are recommended on the site here :)
 
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