DETAINED by DEA

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#61
Gamblor said:
I would have recommended handling this differently. When he asked you if were on vacation, you should have been basically entirely truthful and said "No, I am a professional gambler". If you had done this, it probably would have taken 5 minutes instead of 3 hours.

Police are looking for answers that are general, vague, evasive, off, etc.,. Also, unless your particularly good at lying, its hard to tell if your giving away "tells" or not.
BTDT, myself, and a friend.....already been tried my friend. Give that one a shot yourself and see how far you get.
What you have to understand is this was a Unit "actively" working a stretch of the freeway.
I knew the minute i got pulled over there was gonna be a search no matter what. How did i know....experience.
I was pulled over for failure to use my blinker to change lane.....I DID USE MY BLINKER!!!
So now its , where ya going what ya doing....??? What the hell does that have to do with a blinker.....soooooooooo
At this point there will be a search.
Its called Profiling and you too, if you drive the miles i do will,,,,, get stopped.
Yes they are looking for vague and evasive etc., but i was pulled over to be searched no ifs ands or buts about it...
I am working on some other stuff as we speak....I have a brother out west that is a Attorney...Have been talking to him and brainstorming some stuff. This is a hot topic amongst some criminal attorneys..
Stay tuned,,,i have some good stuff i believe coming.....

Here is one thing he brought up..........GEt the damn dogs name and badge number, when they ask why you need that........Tell them your lawyer along with others in many states are creating a data base on drug dogs and searches that prove the dog made a mistake with a "false hit".....
There is actually one being created and shared across the country, because this crap is getting out of hand!!!
Go ahead search away boys!!!!

Machinist
 

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
#62
Machinist said:
BTDT, myself, and a friend.....already been tried my friend. Give that one a shot yourself and see how far you get.
What you have to understand is this was a Unit "actively" working a stretch of the freeway.
I knew the minute i got pulled over there was gonna be a search no matter what. How did i know....experience.
I was pulled over for failure to use my blinker to change lane.....I DID USE MY BLINKER!!!
So now its , where ya going what ya doing....??? What the hell does that have to do with a blinker.....soooooooooo
At this point there will be a search.
Its called Profiling and you too, if you drive the miles i do will,,,,, get stopped.
Yes they are looking for vague and evasive etc., but i was pulled over to be searched no ifs ands or buts about it...
I am working on some other stuff as we speak....I have a brother out west that is a Attorney...Have been talking to him and brainstorming some stuff. This is a hot topic amongst some criminal attorneys..
Stay tuned,,,i have some good stuff i believe coming.....

Here is one thing he brought up..........GEt the damn dogs name and badge number, when they ask why you need that........Tell them your lawyer along with others in many states are creating a data base on drug dogs and searches that prove the dog made a mistake with a "false hit".....
There is actually one being created and shared across the country, because this crap is getting out of hand!!!
Go ahead search away boys!!!!

Machinist
Hey, I've been pulled over a couple of times driving home late at night on a dark empty highway :) Got away w/o a ticket ("speeding", problem with car).

What I suggest is definitely true, especially for everyone in general, there is little reason to be evasive to the police about what your purpose of going to a casino is for, if the topic comes up. Why do police ask you silly questions about where your going? So they can catch you giving an answer that might not add up.

Hey mach, you know about the details of your situation more than I do of course, maybe I'm fortunate I don't have to drive around the south and other things :) Guess NE is relatively not as bad, although there are sections here... Palisades Parkway comes to mind.

I wish you luck with your case, one thing I'm pretty sure they should have a camera recording of whether you actually did turn on your blinkers or not, get some lawyers and nail them with this :) Yes, 90% of police are scum :)
 
#63
Gamblor said:
Hey, I've been pulled over a couple of times driving home late at night on a dark empty highway :) Got away w/o a ticket ("speeding", problem with car).

What I suggest is definitely true, especially for everyone in general, there is little reason to be evasive to the police about what your purpose of going to a casino is for, if the topic comes up. Why do police ask you silly questions about where your going? So they can catch you giving an answer that might not add up.

Hey mach, you know about the details of your situation more than I do of course, maybe I'm fortunate I don't have to drive around the south and other things :) Guess NE is relatively not as bad, although there are sections here... Palisades Parkway comes to mind.

I wish you luck with your case, one thing I'm pretty sure they should have a camera recording of whether you actually did turn on your blinkers or not, get some lawyers and nail them with this :) Yes, 90% of police are scum :)
Good points. It's important to remember that "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law," but just as importantly, nothing you say can be used to help you in court.

At the same time, the pigs can create a lot of trouble for you without even going to court. Everybody wants to be extrajudicial these days. Being we know (or we hope!) AP's are people they have no interest in, we can assume they are looking for something we are not, and if we can lead them to believe we are not what they were looking for that night our chances are very good of being released without incident.

If you're on a route near or between casinos, you can be certain the cops are fully aware that people go to casinos with money. And also that they can call casino security and verify that you were there, or call whatever store you say you are headed to and determine that you play there, assuming you already play there rated. At that point they will probably say to one another, "Yeah, they say he was playing blackjack all night, cashed out an hour ago and left," shrug, and send you on your way. But don't completely discount the possibility that it was the casino who contacted the police about you, and that is the real reason why you were stopped.

Now what I wouldn't say is "professional gambler," "card counter" or anything like that, because that's going to get back to the casino too. Just say "I like to gamble" which is what we want everyone to believe about us anyway. Maybe puff yourself up too like a real gambler does- "I'm a high roller!" Why so much cash? "All casinos take is cash, don't you know that?"

I speculate that whatever act we present to the casino is also the one we would want to present to the police in this situation, probably for different reasons, but also because we don't know how much communication those two parties will have, or already have had.
 

WRX

Well-Known Member
#64
A few points.

The hard truth that we must all understand is that police pulling over motorists, looking for cash, aren't doing it to fight crime. They're doing it so that they can seize cash and make money for their agencies. They don't care how the motorists got the money. They don't care if they committed a crime or not. They just want the cash, no matter what. There's a prevailing attitude that anyone possessing a lot of cash deserves to have it taken away. How they develop that attitude is a complicated subject, and beyond the scope of what I want to get into. But it's true.

So how do you protect yourself?

The first line of defense is not to get pulled over in the first place. So don't stand out in any way. But avoiding getting pulled over is not always possible, as you found. Sometimes police agencies run operations to pull over people who match their profile, or at random, for the purpose of finding cash. And police will invent a phony excuse for doing so. You've seen how they will tell you to your face a false reason for pulling you over, which you obviously know to be untrue. This is probably for the purposes of intimidating you, making you realize that they're going to do what they want to do no matter what, and making you realize that they really don't care about the truth. Faced with this, it might be good to respond in a way that isn't outright confrontational or argumentative, but that is assertive and lets the officer know that you know the truth and aren't someone to be messed with. So, if the officer says, "You didn't signal," you could respond, "I certainly did signal, maybe there's something wrong with my blinker, could we just check it, please?" Understand that the police are looking for EASY TARGETS. I mean people who are unlikely even to contest a cash seizure, and force them to testify. If you project the image that you know your rights, and will stand up for them later on, if they make trouble for you, they may let you go and look for easier pickings. Officers will not only tell you a false reason for pulling you over, they will also lie about the reason in court later, if it comes to that. But they will be somewhat reluctant to put themselves in that position. So if you make it clear that you are going to have some ability to show that they aren't telling the truth, and that you are going to present yourself well in court, they may back off. They know that if they are caught in a lie, their whole case will look bad, and you will probably win.

Next, you want to have your car in order, in case you do get pulled over. Don't look like a scumbag. (Sorry.) Don't have pillows, a sleeping bag, or dirty clothes in the back seat. No roach clips lying in the center console, please. And no visible money, either. Look like someone who had a decent place to sleep last night, and will have one again tonight. Don't have a bunch of stuff lying around in the passenger area that just begs to be pawed through.

When the officer starts questioning you, you have some choices to make. Machinist, I strongly disagree with your having said to the officer, "Yeah, kind of, and looking for work." That made you look like a drifter. Not the image you want to present. You want to look like a solid citizen. If you're a professional, maybe slip that smoothly into the conversation. "I just got back from the American Dental Association convention," or whatever. Carry professional identification prominently in your wallet. I actually keep a business card on my dashboard in a visible location, for this and other reasons. Give the officer reason to understand that you're someone not to be toyed with.

I would answer a few basic questions without hesitation, such as my home address, where I've just come from, where I'm headed, if I'm going to meet a friend or family, and the like. Beyond that, you need to decide if you want to answer detailed questions, in the interests of conveying an image of being cooperative, or instead refuse to give further information. I wouldn't lie, because that can lead to all kinds of problems. But personally, I wouldn't agree to tell very much, either. You have no legal obligation to answer questions unrelated to the reason you were pulled over. Certainly you have no legal obligation to say anything that could support bringing any criminal charge against you. Understand that the police have only one reason for asking you questions--to get something to use against you. Anything you say MAY give the police probable cause to search your car, or MAY support a suspicion that you present a threat to their safety, thus giving an excuse for some further search of your car or person, absent probable cause to believe that you have committed a crime. If you do not give them a reason to search your car, it's very possible that they may do so anyway. But if the police subsequently seize your money, without having had a proper excuse for the search, you'll be legally entitled to get it back without any further inquiry into the circumstances of why you had the money. The police should know this. Again, this gives them a disincentive to go ahead with the search, a disincentive to seize any cash, and a disincentive to try to keep it if they do initially seize it.

I would not answer questions, along the lines of, "Are you carrying any firearms or drugs?" which are obvious setups. My own choice would be to say something along the lines of, "That's none of your effing business," although I'd probably rephrase it. I would never answer a direct question as to how much cash I had with me, or any question designed to elicit if I'm carrying money. I would probably respond in a way that expressed that I thought the inquiry was improper, and that implied that I thought it might be a shakedown. Personally, I wouldn't want to come out and say that I'm a professional gambler, because a lot of police have very negative views of such people. Again, the image I would want to convey is that I'm someone who knows my rights, who is not afraid to stand up for them, and who can bring them trouble if they treat me improperly. All without being outright rude or confrontational.

I'm not sure what excuse the police need to bring a drug-sniffing dog, but again, I wouldn't want to give the police any information that might afford them an excuse. It's well known that dogs alert on all kinds of things other than actual illegal drugs, and may be trained to alert on command. It's a common ruse to fabricate a reason for searching your car. Again, police WILL lie on the witness stand, if it comes to that, but would probably prefer to avoid such a situation. If you get caught up in a dragnet operation, the police may well have a dog nearby. Otherwise, it's going to be a hassle for them to bring one around. Why would they do it? It takes a lot of police time and resources, when they really have better things to do. So give them as little reason as possible to go to the trouble. Leave them guessing. If it's pure speculation that you might have a lot of money with you, make them decide if they want to make you the target, or look for greener pastures.

Your goals are to minimize the chances of a big hassle, but to maximize your chances of gitting youself a lawsuit if they do hassle you.

Most importantly, you should think about how you're going to handle these situations BEFORE they happen, because you'll be in no condition to try to figure it out on the fly.

International border crossings are a whole different animal.

Finally--Machinist, you say that the DEA agent actually told you, "We went through your paperwork in your suitcase and my GOD you visit alot of casinos!!!!!! So we are assuming by your all your IRS records, player cards, and strategy cards....you're a professional gambler????" Ummm, I have trouble imaging that they had probable cause to go through all your personal effects with a fine tooth comb, reading all of your paperwork. You may want to speak with a lawyer about the possibility of a civil rights suit.
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#66
WRX,
Some excellent points!
Looking like a scumbag, no doubt about it my car was a mess , it usually isnt, i had been out 10 or 12 days and was tired and got lazy in that dept. Wont happen again.
Yes you need to be prepared , really wasnt. Only mildly from the point of all my casino stuff in one spot. I really believe that helped.
I will be heading out again in a day or two. I am much more prepared.
Projecting the image of someone who know his rights, has the money to fight in the courts, goes a long ways i believe.
My brother was really interested in this type of stuff, as he has gotten more into criminal representation.
We are going to brainstorm some basic ideas on how to handle such stuff on the freeway.
We have to look at this stuff from a purely legal standpoint.
What i intend to put together is a step by step game plan you need to follow from your abode to a casino and all point inbetween and back to your house.
I believe that there are different ways to handle a city cop, sheriffs, to Hwypatrol, and actual drug units looking for cash.
I know i have 5 seperate incidents over 20 someyears. This is the first time with an actual active drug unit doing their thing.
In my case i believe i am going to go right at them with " I am a semiprofessional card player, anything from BJ to poker player". My reasoning is I am now in the NCIC database and this last incident has been recorded as me being detained and searched and the conclusion was this is what i do.
But that could change with advice from my lawyer as we discuss this topic.
Thanks WRX for your input... very good advice....

Mac
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#67
Lawyers

Had a thought.
Where are our lawyers on this site????? Are you telling me that of the thousands of people visiting this site, that there isnt one lawyer that has any insite into this subject???
Or any lawyer that has friends as lawyers that are interested??????

HElllllooooooooo Anybody,...........Anybody at all!!!!!!!!!:):):)

Machinist
 
#69
WRX said:
...I would not answer questions, along the lines of, "Are you carrying any firearms or drugs?" which are obvious setups. My own choice would be to say something along the lines of, "That's none of your effing business," although I'd probably rephrase it....
Excellent post, and I agree with everything you have to say except this. That question is not quite a setup. A real criminal knows when he has been caught, and will frequently answer "Yes" to these questions to avoid getting hurt and get gentler physical treatment down at the police station. A drug dependent may prefer being in jail than on the street. Drugs are easier to find in jail.

Also a person who is legally carrying a pistol will probably not volunteer that information to a cop, but will tell him when asked. In some states you may be required to reveal this if asked or when stopped by the police, and a CCW permit holder is required to know the law wherever he is carrying. An answer like "I have a concealed-carry permit, and my pistol is in a holster on the outside of my right shin" is advisable. Letting them know you have a CCW is a good decision, along the lines of what you said because it proves you are a solid citizen, who has already gone through FBI screening and has nothing to fear in an honest court.
 

WRX

Well-Known Member
#70
Automatic Monkey said:
Also a person who is legally carrying a pistol will probably not volunteer that information to a cop, but will tell him when asked. In some states you may be required to reveal this if asked or when stopped by the police, and a CCW permit holder is required to know the law wherever he is carrying. An answer like "I have a concealed-carry permit, and my pistol is in a holster on the outside of my right shin" is advisable. Letting them know you have a CCW is a good decision, along the lines of what you said because it proves you are a solid citizen, who has already gone through FBI screening and has nothing to fear in an honest court.
It would be a different situation if I were carrying a concealed weapon on my person. I would only do so if I had any required permit, and in that case would tell the officer, even without being asked, so as to avoid him panicking upon noticing something that looked like a weapon, or otherwise doing something to endanger my health. But I still wouldn't answer questions as to what I was carrying in my car.
 

pit15

Well-Known Member
#71
Chips are usually OK for a few reasons.

For one, if the cops confiscate cash they're allowed to keep it and use it for their expenses. I don't think the same applies to chips. They can't confiscate it, then go to the casino and cash it out.

Second, the mexicans/columbians don't accept casino chips as payment for their merchandise. These guys actually ARE looking for drug runners here. Lots of cash is used to buy drugs. Nobody buys drugs with a bag full of chips.

And it makes your story legitimate. You say you're going to the casino, and you got casino chips. It's pretty hard to argue with that. And any laws related to carrying large amounts of cash don't apply to chips.
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#72
pit15 said:
Chips are usually OK for a few reasons.

For one, if the cops confiscate cash they're allowed to keep it and use it for their expenses. I don't think the same applies to chips. They can't confiscate it, then go to the casino and cash it out.

Second, the mexicans/columbians don't accept casino chips as payment for their merchandise. These guys actually ARE looking for drug runners here. Lots of cash is used to buy drugs. Nobody buys drugs with a bag full of chips.

And it makes your story legitimate. You say you're going to the casino, and you got casino chips. It's pretty hard to argue with that. And any laws related to carrying large amounts of cash don't apply to chips.
Hmmmmm...interesting point...will have to research that angle.

Mac
 
#73
may work

car in top condition & perfect driving.

U have your bank statement for the session trip cash.

If won and rated get your winn/loss statement. This will show why u have $X over bank statement.

If unrated but win, get receipt from cashier (has anyone done this?)

About 40% of time you lose so bank withdrawal statement should suffice.

You are a friendly wide eyed tourist, not an AP.

Extras:
Printed Google maps of tourist trip, great if went to other non casino areas.

Never say casino, its resort or the destination city.

Have some dollar chips that u collect, or for the kids. Further casino patronage proof.

You are a tourist, not an AP pro, unless u have tax papers with you.

Any other tourist papers, brochures from the "resort" or other near attractions.

Have cash on u, not in car
 

Coyote

Well-Known Member
#75
Wow Mac! What an experience! Ive been out of the matrix for the past week and just found this story. Im so glad it went well for you! Let me know if you are in the area in the near future.

Best to ya!
Coyote
 

Dyepaintball12

Well-Known Member
#77
pit15 said:
Chips are usually OK for a few reasons.

For one, if the cops confiscate cash they're allowed to keep it and use it for their expenses.
You're shitting me. Cops get to KEEP the money they confiscate? That seems absolutely f-ed.
 

WRX

Well-Known Member
#78
tthree said:
Almost all the democrat appointees to the supreme court are liberal as well as about half the republican appointees. This gives the supreme court a liberal make up.
As a lawyer, familiar with the Supreme Court's decisions in recent years, I find this statement astounding. Of course, you, like anyone, are free to disagree with the views of any or all of the justices. But this is very different from the usage of the words "liberal" and "conservative" that most people employ. It's kind of like saying that 100% of members of the Democratic Party, and 90% of the members of the Republican Party are liberals. Maybe it's comforting to see oneself as a member of a very small club that are the "true conservatives," arrayed against the misguided masses.
 
#79
Same Thing almost same day

Hi guys. This is my first post, but I've been reading for a couple of years.
Same situation happened to me on Aug. 7, 2011
It was in a different state in midwest (state police, not sheriffs and DEA).
In total $17,800 was seized. And a couple of days later I was required to post a bond of 10% in order to have the case heard in civil court. That brings the total to $19,580.
Now it is up to me to prove the legitimacy of my funds. This will probably cost $4-$7K as estimated by a renowned LV attorney with lots of experience in defending gamblers. I will start a thread about it so as not to hijack yours.
-Scooby-
 
#80
Scooby

Scooby said:
Hi guys. This is my first post, but I've been reading for a couple of years.
Same situation happened to me on Aug. 7, 2011
It was in a different state in midwest (state police, not sheriffs and DEA).
In total $17,800 was seized. And a couple of days later I was required to post a bond of 10% in order to have the case heard in civil court. That brings the total to $19,580.
Now it is up to me to prove the legitimacy of my funds. This will probably cost $4-$7K as estimated by a renowned LV attorney with lots of experience in defending gamblers. I will start a thread about it so as not to hijack yours.
-Scooby-
Nice to have you posting here Scooby:);)


What happened to this full time Pro AP is an affront and a challenge to "our freedoms" as "free" U.S. citizens. A classic example of Gov. run amoke and needing a serious azz whooping!

While we fight in Iraq, AfPak, Libya, Yemen, Somalia to protect out "Freedoms" we are robbed here by the Gov of our livelyhood for the simply fact that we dare to travel with $18,000 dollars and may appear different from some folks, maybe having long hair, beard, fat, thin, unbathed etc.,, frequent casinos, whatever.....

This event is simply an outrage that calls for all of our action as freedom loving people, because if this stands, we will soon have no freedom left.

I also suspect a casino turned the State Police onto this AP. Suspect strongly.


CP
 
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