DETAINED by DEA
- Thread starter Machinist
- Start date
Not the individual cops, the local government. In a way we are lucky that there is civil forfeiture separate from a criminal conviction, because it would be better to get ripped off, than to get framed up for a felony conviction and then ripped off.
But cops being what they are (criminals), you never know. We hear stories all the time about cops beating people they detain, rape too. People from the NYC area don't all need to Google "Abner Louima" to remember what they are capable of, never mind stealing some money.
Another thing you have to really worry about are EMT's and hospital staff robbing you if you are injured and have to be taken to the hospital.
One of my rules when on a mission is no hanging around in the venue after the action. Just get the heck out of there, even if its just a short drive. The reason is too many people around town have seen me at the table and at the cage with a large sum, and AP's probably have more money on them than anyone else who is walking from store to store. There's no way to hide it. It makes us a target for every kind of predator from lowlife pickpockets to county sheriffs.
But cops being what they are (criminals), you never know. We hear stories all the time about cops beating people they detain, rape too. People from the NYC area don't all need to Google "Abner Louima" to remember what they are capable of, never mind stealing some money.
Another thing you have to really worry about are EMT's and hospital staff robbing you if you are injured and have to be taken to the hospital.
One of my rules when on a mission is no hanging around in the venue after the action. Just get the heck out of there, even if its just a short drive. The reason is too many people around town have seen me at the table and at the cage with a large sum, and AP's probably have more money on them than anyone else who is walking from store to store. There's no way to hide it. It makes us a target for every kind of predator from lowlife pickpockets to county sheriffs.
From Grosjean:
As a guard escorts me down the hall to the property window (like a casino’s cage) to get the rest of my stuff, he says, "There’s a hole in the outer bag, but the inner bags are sealed." I get to the property window where they produce the bag with my stuff. I see the bags of chips inside the bigger bag, which indeed has a hole in it. I don’t think much of it, and sign for my stuff, and then get escorted to the lobby.
As I wait for Mike in the lobby, I decide to count my chips. When I take out the inner bags, I have a sinking feeling when I see that the inner bags are not sealed, as the guard said. They are just Ziploc bags. I count all the chips, and sure enough, $2000 is missing!
Naturally, instead of having the slightest concern that a felony theft has occurred in his police station, Watch Commander just says, "You could have counted it back at the window, but you signed the paper." I argue that I signed for $54,000, not the $52,000 that is in the bag. Further arguments are useless, because the bottom line is that Watch Commander is completely apathetic to my loss of $2000. Looking in his eyes, it is clear that there is nothing I can do, and nothing that I could have done to get that $2000.
http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/funnything.htm
And how much money has has Metro stolen from guys like Billy Walters?
-Sonny-
As a guard escorts me down the hall to the property window (like a casino’s cage) to get the rest of my stuff, he says, "There’s a hole in the outer bag, but the inner bags are sealed." I get to the property window where they produce the bag with my stuff. I see the bags of chips inside the bigger bag, which indeed has a hole in it. I don’t think much of it, and sign for my stuff, and then get escorted to the lobby.
As I wait for Mike in the lobby, I decide to count my chips. When I take out the inner bags, I have a sinking feeling when I see that the inner bags are not sealed, as the guard said. They are just Ziploc bags. I count all the chips, and sure enough, $2000 is missing!
Naturally, instead of having the slightest concern that a felony theft has occurred in his police station, Watch Commander just says, "You could have counted it back at the window, but you signed the paper." I argue that I signed for $54,000, not the $52,000 that is in the bag. Further arguments are useless, because the bottom line is that Watch Commander is completely apathetic to my loss of $2000. Looking in his eyes, it is clear that there is nothing I can do, and nothing that I could have done to get that $2000.
http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/funnything.htm
And how much money has has Metro stolen from guys like Billy Walters?
-Sonny-
I'll add my own experience to this thread:
In the mid-90s my partner and I are heading E toward Gulfport on the Interstate when we're pulled over due to my not wearing a seatbelt (error, error). Even then, media reports of "confiscation corridors" had begun popping up all over.
The cop discovers my partner is from the CA Bay Area, and decides this
somehow is suspicious. So he asks a few more questions, and we mention that we are tourists. He calls for backup. My partner, holding about 70K in cash and local chips, declines to answer "how much cash" after we have been instructed to step out the car and seperated. At this point another backup arrives, bearing a short fellow with a mean countenance. The earlier backup guy inisists on looking into my partner's fannypack, which contains most of the money, but my partner refuses. They finally insist on the grounds that "officer safety is paramount (it sounded like the sort of line they'd learned at a seminar). It is clear there is no firearm in the pouch so a search was unnecessary, but the discover of the cash sets them onto the radio for still more back up, plus the K-9. Finally a suit arrives, serious 30ish-looking fellow, and while the nice doggie parades around the car (sniffs a few times, looks bored, returns) we choose to violate the "no speak to cops" rule and emphasize that we are gamblers. My partner happened to have tax papers indicating pro gambler status. He had a log book showing various AP opportunities in varous places. I had a couple of thousand on me in cash and chips, including Riviera promo chips. I'd also just returned from an undercover mission at the annual Gaming Expo in Vegas on a media pass, and so I had tons of promo stuff, an event badge, etc. (which was all mixed in with some *VERY* dirty underwear). I mentioned in passing that an article might be in order, since I was a "credentialed journalist" and all.
So it's us, stating firmly that we are just gamblers, vs. the short guy, who has a hard on for taking us down, confiscating the money and so forth. Finally the suit decides in our favor. As a last parting shot, shorty declares "we gotta protect the casinas" and insists on taking our photos, no doubt in order to fax them to his future employers.
The lesson above, aside from always wearing your seatbelt, is that they will use some bullshit like "officer safety" to do as they please, and further, it helps to have bonifides along which will look bad for them in a civil action.
In the mid-90s my partner and I are heading E toward Gulfport on the Interstate when we're pulled over due to my not wearing a seatbelt (error, error). Even then, media reports of "confiscation corridors" had begun popping up all over.
The cop discovers my partner is from the CA Bay Area, and decides this
somehow is suspicious. So he asks a few more questions, and we mention that we are tourists. He calls for backup. My partner, holding about 70K in cash and local chips, declines to answer "how much cash" after we have been instructed to step out the car and seperated. At this point another backup arrives, bearing a short fellow with a mean countenance. The earlier backup guy inisists on looking into my partner's fannypack, which contains most of the money, but my partner refuses. They finally insist on the grounds that "officer safety is paramount (it sounded like the sort of line they'd learned at a seminar). It is clear there is no firearm in the pouch so a search was unnecessary, but the discover of the cash sets them onto the radio for still more back up, plus the K-9. Finally a suit arrives, serious 30ish-looking fellow, and while the nice doggie parades around the car (sniffs a few times, looks bored, returns) we choose to violate the "no speak to cops" rule and emphasize that we are gamblers. My partner happened to have tax papers indicating pro gambler status. He had a log book showing various AP opportunities in varous places. I had a couple of thousand on me in cash and chips, including Riviera promo chips. I'd also just returned from an undercover mission at the annual Gaming Expo in Vegas on a media pass, and so I had tons of promo stuff, an event badge, etc. (which was all mixed in with some *VERY* dirty underwear). I mentioned in passing that an article might be in order, since I was a "credentialed journalist" and all.
So it's us, stating firmly that we are just gamblers, vs. the short guy, who has a hard on for taking us down, confiscating the money and so forth. Finally the suit decides in our favor. As a last parting shot, shorty declares "we gotta protect the casinas" and insists on taking our photos, no doubt in order to fax them to his future employers.
The lesson above, aside from always wearing your seatbelt, is that they will use some bullshit like "officer safety" to do as they please, and further, it helps to have bonifides along which will look bad for them in a civil action.
I hadn't read that for a while, great story!
And I wouldn't put it past casino security to detain someone like us just long enough for their partner on the outside to get into position in the parking lot.
I'm curious as to why they had all their paraphernalia on them in this store, specifically players cards in other names and cheques from other casinos. Doesn't sound like a good idea.
And I wouldn't put it past casino security to detain someone like us just long enough for their partner on the outside to get into position in the parking lot.
I'm curious as to why they had all their paraphernalia on them in this store, specifically players cards in other names and cheques from other casinos. Doesn't sound like a good idea.
Scooby,
I'd really like to hear more about what happened with you. This thread seems to have been hijacked to talk politics, but I'd like to know things like, why do you think in your case the money was confiscated, as opposed to what happened to Mechanic? (Luck or were there other circumstances?) Is there anything you would have done differently? Anything that would be helpful to the rest of us?
I'd really like to hear more about what happened with you. This thread seems to have been hijacked to talk politics, but I'd like to know things like, why do you think in your case the money was confiscated, as opposed to what happened to Mechanic? (Luck or were there other circumstances?) Is there anything you would have done differently? Anything that would be helpful to the rest of us?
Last year the Justice Department confiscated 42,454 cars, boats, houses, stacks of cash, and other items of private property valued at more than $600 million. The vast majority of people whose property is seized by federal agents are never formally charged with a crime. Some ninety percent never get their property back. MORE- End The Tyranny of Forfeiture Law - Dalton
i agree initially
Police asking how much money you have is already a fishing expedition. One has the give up wallet. If they then search "you" without a warrant & find cash one just says "police are taking money from people, I saw it on 60 minutes. I was aftaid by you asking you wanted to take or steal my money, are you going to do that?" It puts s lot of pressure on them & perhaps interesting in court.
If they search "you" without a warrant you probably win in court
Police asking how much money you have is already a fishing expedition. One has the give up wallet. If they then search "you" without a warrant & find cash one just says "police are taking money from people, I saw it on 60 minutes. I was aftaid by you asking you wanted to take or steal my money, are you going to do that?" It puts s lot of pressure on them & perhaps interesting in court.
If they search "you" without a warrant you probably win in court
That is absolutely not true. "You" are the easiest thing for him to search, the excuse being officer safety. If he sees a bulge or anything out of the ordinary about your clothing he can touch it and investigate further if he believes it may be a weapon, without any permission or warrant. Once you are arrested they can search any part of you they wish before they put you in a cell, including your rectum.
This is my advice- take it or leave it:
Do nothing and carry nothing that is illegal.
Minimize your time on the road. No sleeping in your car, no eating in your car, don't use drive-thrus. Don't whiz on the side of the road if you can help it; drunks do that and it will lead to further investigation. Casino to casino.
A rental car will usually be safer than your own car from this kind of activity. If you think your rental is being followed or surveilled by anyone, take it back to the rental place, tell them you saw the brake warning light go on and you want to swap it for another one.
If you are stopped by the cops and you choose to say anything at all:
"Where are you going?" "To the A Casino."
"Where did you come from?" "I was at the B Casino."
"What do you do at the casino?" "I like to gamble."
"What games do you play?" "Blackjack, slots sometimes, craps sometimes, whatever's going lucky for me."
"Did you win at the B Casino?" "Not really, it wasn't going good, that's why I'm going to A."
"Did you have anything to drink at the casino?" "No I don't drink."
"Do you have any drugs or weapons on you or in the car?" "No way." [If applicable] "I have a concealed carry permit in my wallet, and a pistol in a holster. Would you like to inspect them?"
"Are you carrying any cash?" "Well yeah, that's all they take at the casino."
In other words, you are a gambling ploppy, a "solid citizen" at the casino. You've seen a thousand of them, you know how to imitate one, this is how you want authorities of all kinds to see you, both in and out of the casino.
This is my advice- take it or leave it:
Do nothing and carry nothing that is illegal.
Minimize your time on the road. No sleeping in your car, no eating in your car, don't use drive-thrus. Don't whiz on the side of the road if you can help it; drunks do that and it will lead to further investigation. Casino to casino.
A rental car will usually be safer than your own car from this kind of activity. If you think your rental is being followed or surveilled by anyone, take it back to the rental place, tell them you saw the brake warning light go on and you want to swap it for another one.
If you are stopped by the cops and you choose to say anything at all:
"Where are you going?" "To the A Casino."
"Where did you come from?" "I was at the B Casino."
"What do you do at the casino?" "I like to gamble."
"What games do you play?" "Blackjack, slots sometimes, craps sometimes, whatever's going lucky for me."
"Did you win at the B Casino?" "Not really, it wasn't going good, that's why I'm going to A."
"Did you have anything to drink at the casino?" "No I don't drink."
"Do you have any drugs or weapons on you or in the car?" "No way." [If applicable] "I have a concealed carry permit in my wallet, and a pistol in a holster. Would you like to inspect them?"
"Are you carrying any cash?" "Well yeah, that's all they take at the casino."
In other words, you are a gambling ploppy, a "solid citizen" at the casino. You've seen a thousand of them, you know how to imitate one, this is how you want authorities of all kinds to see you, both in and out of the casino.
Reply to AM
They ask to search the car more then the person it seems, easier threshold. A person may easily agree to a trunk search, but to get you out of the car? To search you?
I imagine most have had routine traffic stops where the officer is clearly looking inside the car, but does not ask the driver to step out.
What happened to Machinists, they searched his car, not that he was not next, but its the car search that they can push on civilians vs touching people.
Instead of saying you are coming from a casino to peak their intetest, just say the city. If they inquire further then perhaps casino. A brochure of non casino activity may be helpful.
This comes down to different personal experiences and regions. Someone mentioned having fanny packs searched and officer safety being the stated reason? Well, in certain areas guns are carried in fanny packs! I think there are fanny pack holsters.
Yep, in certain regions, don't use fanny packs. Of course it invites a thieving cop to inquire what's inside.
Add to the checklist, if there are cops everywhere stop & eat or get a room, though I know they trap people in corridors with no exits, like train robbers.
They ask to search the car more then the person it seems, easier threshold. A person may easily agree to a trunk search, but to get you out of the car? To search you?
I imagine most have had routine traffic stops where the officer is clearly looking inside the car, but does not ask the driver to step out.
What happened to Machinists, they searched his car, not that he was not next, but its the car search that they can push on civilians vs touching people.
Instead of saying you are coming from a casino to peak their intetest, just say the city. If they inquire further then perhaps casino. A brochure of non casino activity may be helpful.
This comes down to different personal experiences and regions. Someone mentioned having fanny packs searched and officer safety being the stated reason? Well, in certain areas guns are carried in fanny packs! I think there are fanny pack holsters.
Yep, in certain regions, don't use fanny packs. Of course it invites a thieving cop to inquire what's inside.
Add to the checklist, if there are cops everywhere stop & eat or get a room, though I know they trap people in corridors with no exits, like train robbers.
So
So in the US we are really not really free to move around anymore, like real free men could..............land of the free,,,home of the brave
I would choose to do what I want, when I want, and to hell with the cops. If you are not doing a crime act as a free man would,, claiming and standing up as a free man should.
I was once stopped and questioned and the cop tried to threaten, I simply told them no search of me or my vehicle, the cop searched over my clear objection, found an illegal item, called the station, came back, apologized, I kept the item and drove off,,,because he was wrong, and because I stood up as a free man should.
Problem is most people today are pussys and that is why we are losing true status as a free people,,,we wanna fly so yes, feel up my 12 year old daughter or 10 year old son, listen to my phone conversations and read my emails, and on and on,,,I say Fu#k everyone of you engaged in this unconstitutional activity,,Fu#k you all and the cops who robbed Scooby,,,you especially.:devil:
CP
So in the US we are really not really free to move around anymore, like real free men could..............land of the free,,,home of the brave
I would choose to do what I want, when I want, and to hell with the cops. If you are not doing a crime act as a free man would,, claiming and standing up as a free man should.
I was once stopped and questioned and the cop tried to threaten, I simply told them no search of me or my vehicle, the cop searched over my clear objection, found an illegal item, called the station, came back, apologized, I kept the item and drove off,,,because he was wrong, and because I stood up as a free man should.
Problem is most people today are pussys and that is why we are losing true status as a free people,,,we wanna fly so yes, feel up my 12 year old daughter or 10 year old son, listen to my phone conversations and read my emails, and on and on,,,I say Fu#k everyone of you engaged in this unconstitutional activity,,Fu#k you all and the cops who robbed Scooby,,,you especially.:devil:
CP
my take
As soon as a cop asks how much money you have, they are a thief with a badge. The Nazi legally took property from the Jews.
I would not tell a stranger in the parking lot how much I had, no difference.
They find, they take then your defence is they were obviously looking to take money, and you have got to attack the whole process, bringing up the Jews and the whole practice of cop theft etc.
National borders I would be upfront.
As soon as a cop asks how much money you have, they are a thief with a badge. The Nazi legally took property from the Jews.
I would not tell a stranger in the parking lot how much I had, no difference.
They find, they take then your defence is they were obviously looking to take money, and you have got to attack the whole process, bringing up the Jews and the whole practice of cop theft etc.
National borders I would be upfront.
They can always tell you to step out of a car, again for "officer safety" or on suspicion of drunken driving. Once you are standing there in front of him they can fabricate a reason to pat you down without penalty. Once they pat you down they can fabricate reasonable suspicion of a weapon and search you further. Going in your trunk is a lot harder because unless you are in the trunk you cannot use a weapon that is hidden in there, no imminent risk of harm to an officer.
In my arrest history (which is quite long, for someone without a criminal record!) I tend to get the full treatment- multiple pairs of handcuffs, lots of cops, pants pulled down so I can't kick, and I've even been restrained inside a cell. And I'm completely non-violent and not belligerent with cops! This is because when I was young I had a weapons arrest, and they told me once that I fit the profile of a guy who attacks cops.
In my arrest history (which is quite long, for someone without a criminal record!) I tend to get the full treatment- multiple pairs of handcuffs, lots of cops, pants pulled down so I can't kick, and I've even been restrained inside a cell. And I'm completely non-violent and not belligerent with cops! This is because when I was young I had a weapons arrest, and they told me once that I fit the profile of a guy who attacks cops.