Fair or Unfair?

[gamecounter]

This is the situation.
I am 100% positive a certain card is going to be an ace, (count is high too) I change my bet from one hand of table minimum to two hands of $1000.00 each.

I am playing anchor and the anchor position is guaranteed where the ace is coming.

The dealer deals, but only deals to one of my two hands. The ace, which was supposed to go to my anchor hand, has now gone to the dealer.

I right away call the pit boss and ask for my hand to be cancelled. Pit boss says no and I am forced to play and lose on my one bet.

All of this happened after the casino half shoed me.

How is this fair? How can casinos get away with this?

 

[NightStalker]

unfair

but since this is happened after they have half-shoed you. This is more or less expected..

 

[WRX]

If you were 100% certain that the ace was in a certain position, maybe the dealer was also 100% certain. Or figured out from your unusual play what the situation was. Either way, there's a good chance the dealer deliberately manipulated the deal to screw you. I'd immediately call gaming, if such a thing exists in an effective way in the jurisdiction where you were playing.

 

[Machinist]

Must be a joke

Where is the punch line?????? :laugh: Casino's fair?????? At a thousand a hand ,,,your asking if this is fair play from a stinking Casino??????
You made my day buddy.....:laugh:
Now get back in there and get them bastards...at a thousand a pop you can make em hurt , at least for a shift or two ......:whip::whip:

Machinist

 

[Sucker]

To begin with, casinos in almost all venues have been granted, by their respective gaming commissions; the LEGAL right to interpret the rules in any way they feel fit. And they WILL usually bend the decision into their favor whenever they can.

So the dealer made a mistake and it cost you 800 bucks - it will NOT be the last time it happens to you in your BJ career. All you can do NOW is suck it up, put your head down, and charge back into the game. Your first hand knowledge of how unethical they can be should only ADD to your determination.

Look at the bright side - you've found a casino which allows you to go from table minimum to two hands of max, and no one's even paying attention???!!!(You DID say you had to CALL the PB).

Here's a tip: Anytime you're sequencing aces with accuracies approaching 100%, you should ALWAYS play a tip for the dealer. Had you had a quarter sitting out there on your second hand; we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. And of course; there are many other reasons why tipping pays dividends.

You have a much bigger gun than THEY do - Use it WISELY.

 

[aslan]

I would think that insistence on a review of this play and the film taken would ultimately result in at least your losses being returned if not your natural being properly rewarded. The fact that you had already been ID'ed has not gone in your favor, since they might have listened to you in the first place had they thought you to be a typical ploppy. Sorry about this whole incident, but it does go to demonstrate, as earlier pointed out, that the house is pitiless in seeking to separate its customers from their hard earned cash. Consider all the poor slobs who have lost their very life savings to the casinos thinking they had a healthy chance to win as depicted relentlessly by the casinos' advertising.

 

[shadroch]

Does the casino allow you to jump from one to two hands? I played at a Vegas casino that would not let me do so. You could go from two to one, but not the other way. It was the Vegas Club last winter.

 

[iCountNTrack]

This is the situation.
I am 100% positive a certain card is going to be an ace, (count is high too) I change my bet from one hand of table minimum to two hands of $1000.00 each.

I am playing anchor and the anchor position is guaranteed where the ace is coming.

The dealer deals, but only deals to one of my two hands. The ace, which was supposed to go to my anchor hand, has now gone to the dealer.

I right away call the pit boss and ask for my hand to be cancelled. Pit boss says no and I am forced to play and lose on my one bet.

All of this happened after the casino half shoed me.

How is this fair? How can casinos get away with this?

I dont get it, you had placed a bet in each of the boxes and the dealer decided to skip the one hand?!! Did you not indicate to the dealer that you were playing two hands as soon as he skipped the second one?

 

[gamecounter]

Does the casino allow you to jump from one to two hands? I played at a Vegas casino that would not let me do so. You could go from two to one, but not the other way. It was the Vegas Club last winter.

Yes you are allowed to jump from one to two hands at this casino.

I dont get it, you had placed a bet in each of the boxes and the dealer decided to skip the one hand?!! Did you not indicate to the dealer that you were playing two hands as soon as he skipped the second one?

Yes I placed a bet inside each of the boxes and the dealer decided to skip one hand and yes I informed the dealer of the error right away.

 

[Sonny]

This is a good argument against jumping from the table min to 2 hands of $1k. In this case, 2 hands of $505 would probably have had a much higher EV. In situations like this, the "correct" bet has almost nothing to do with math.

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?p=155899

More importantly, how did you find this opportunity and how will you find it again? And how can you find it on a shift where you aren't made?

-Sonny-

 

[aslan]

Does the casino allow you to jump from one to two hands? I played at a Vegas casino that would not let me do so. You could go from two to one, but not the other way. It was the Vegas Club last winter.

...In which case the casino would be perfectly justified in ignoring the additional hand. This is a pretty common rule; not 100%, but fairly common.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

Captain obvious here...

Jumping from min to 2x max is what did it.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

This is the situation.
I am 100% positive a certain card is going to be an ace, (count is high too) I change my bet from one hand of table minimum to two hands of $1000.00 each.

I am playing anchor and the anchor position is guaranteed where the ace is coming.

The dealer deals, but only deals to one of my two hands. The ace, which was supposed to go to my anchor hand, has now gone to the dealer.

I right away call the pit boss and ask for my hand to be cancelled. Pit boss says no and I am forced to play and lose on my one bet.

All of this happened after the casino half shoed me.

How is this fair? How can casinos get away with this?

He probably looked at the card and chose to deal it to himself instead of you after seeing it was an ace. This is a felony. I would have probably picked up my bet, put it in my pocket and walked out of the casino, seeing if they had the balls to stop me and let the camera possibly reveal a cheat move by the dealer.

What I don't understand is why you were playing 2 hands at max if you were 100% sure you were steering it to one spot. Why not play the first at min and the second at max? That way if they try to screw you this way they can only screw you out of the min bet. If they fail to deal a card to the min hand and deal the non-ace to the max, as soon as they pass the min hand yell "Hey!" and quickly grab the card and slide it over to the correct position. They will yell at you for touching the cards, but what are they going to do, slide the card back to preserve the dealer error? Quick reactions are useful in taking advantage of these situations.

 

[chichow]

AM,

Do you have your raging crazed ploppy act going on at the same time? :grin:

 

[gamecounter]

Sue?

Do you guys think I should sue to get this money back?

 

[Sucker]

When a dealer makes a mistake and accidentally deals a player out, the STANDARD way of handling it is to call THAT spot a dead hand, and the remaining hands CONTINUE as though THAT hand never existed. While there ARE a few houses where the rule is "All hands are dead" ; it's apparent that you were playing in a place which employs the former rule.

Before you do something foolish, like giving money to some unscrupulous attorney; I would suggest that you at LEAST talk to the gaming commission in the proper jurisdiction. I already KNOW what they're going to say, but maybe it's best if you hear it from the horses' mouth.

 

[FLASH1296]

Good advice from Sucker.

Recently I was cheated by a CLEARLY improper ruling in Las Vegas.

The commission would CERTAINLY have them pay me the $50 that I was shorted, BUT that would identify me as a knowledgeable player, draw heat, and the enmity of a particular crew.

NOT worth it.

 

[aslan]

When a dealer makes a mistake and accidentally deals a player out, the STANDARD way of handling it is to call THAT spot a dead hand, and the remaining hands CONTINUE as though THAT hand never existed. While there ARE a few houses where the rule is "All hands are dead" ; it's apparent that you were playing in a place which employs the former rule.

Before you do something foolish, like giving money to some unscrupulous attorney; I would suggest that you at LEAST talk to the gaming commission in the proper jurisdiction. I already KNOW what they're going to say, but maybe it's best if you hear it from the horses' mouth.

Caught in time they will back up the cards, but at some point the hand is irreversible. Second round? I suppose whatever the "unwritten" policy of the casino is. Good luck against unwritten policies.

PS--My fortunate experience has been that the house acts in the best interest of the players, but then, no one is usually betting the back forty; in the latter case, an "all hands are dead" ruling would not surprise me.

 

[moo321]

Since they half-shoed you, I'm assuming this is New Jersey. In any case, I would have immediately informed them that the result of the hand was in dispute, and called gaming. I wouldn't have even played the hand out.

A few things to consider:

1. What is $1k worth to you? If you have a massive bankroll, and you do a lot of this play, I might let it go. If that's 5-10% of your bankroll, I'd make a shitstorm.


2. If you want to file a dispute, you'll need to make sure the tape is preserved. From what I've read, I believe that in several jurisdictions a casino is required to keep a tape of a disputed play, even if they think you're wrong. Failing to keep the tape of a disputed play might be tortious, or a violation of gaming rules, or evidence that they did something improper. By having a tape, you preserve evidence for a lawsuit or dispute.


3. What is your name worth to you? Filing a dispute could mean your name gets burned out.


These disputes are usually handled by a gaming commission, although you may be able to sue.

 

[moo321]

He probably looked at the card and chose to deal it to himself instead of you after seeing it was an ace. This is a felony. I would have probably picked up my bet, put it in my pocket and walked out of the casino, seeing if they had the balls to stop me and let the camera possibly reveal a cheat move by the dealer.

What I don't understand is why you were playing 2 hands at max if you were 100% sure you were steering it to one spot. Why not play the first at min and the second at max? That way if they try to screw you this way they can only screw you out of the min bet. If they fail to deal a card to the min hand and deal the non-ace to the max, as soon as they pass the min hand yell "Hey!" and quickly grab the card and slide it over to the correct position. They will yell at you for touching the cards, but what are they going to do, slide the card back to preserve the dealer error? Quick reactions are useful in taking advantage of these situations.

Personally, I wouldn't touch the money. You're probably right, they probably wouldn't do anything. But there's a very off chance you could end up charged with a felony for taking down your bet. Maybe you get a dickhead prosecutor and a jury of pit bosses and ex-dealers.

The card move actually seems better to me, because it's less likely to be considered a crime. But I personally wouldn't try either move. Although, it could be an interesting angle to shoot...