First Exposure to Heat - Maybe?

#1
So a couple of my buddies called me tonight and told me they were going to be partying at one of the local casinos. There is a casino in the area that has a great center area with a live band and it can be good fun (especially since there is generally a good ratio of females). I agreed to come up, have a few drinks, maybe do a little bit of recreational gambling.

Anyways I head up the hill and as I got to the casinos I called and they said they were sitting down for dinner. I had just finished eating before heading up so I figured I'd play a few hands at a casino just down the street. I've been working hard on my counting and figured for giggles I'd get some casino exposure.(Breaking my commitment to stay away from the tables til I had everything down solid)

So as I walk in I go to the lower limit tables; $10 minimum on Friday and Saturday nights. I stop by a table just finishing up a shuffle. I sit down next to three other guys who were from out of town.

I start counting and to my surprise I was keeping up well with the table. To my amazement the count on the first shoe spiked up crazy after about the first deck so I began ramping my bets. I was only placing $50-60 bets. Needless to say I started to kill it! I was having so much fun.

After the first shoe I was up $100 on a $100 buy in. So the same dealer starts dealing another shoe and once again the count starts to skyrocket. Just as I begin ramping my bets a pit boss in an extremely nice suit that I hadn't seen in the pit comes up to our table and begins talking to me. He asked if I was interested in a players card and I told him that I rarely make it to the casinos so I didnt really feel I needed one. He kept prying to get me to get one saying I'd get comped a meal if I played X amount of dollars tonight. I told him no again and he walked away without asking anyone else at my table if they wanted a card.

About half way through the shoe I notice an out of place Asian guy (maybe race is irrelevant) post up behind the table and begin watching. He was wearing a nice pair of slacks, nice shirt, nice tie, and had rings on his fingers. There were two spots open at the table so I thought it was strange he was just standing there. The remaining guys who knew each other at the table decided to call it quits while they were ahead and left the table. I got in one more hand (still high count) when a new dealer tapped in for the current dealer. None of the other dealers were rotating.

We played heads up and on my 2nd or 3rd hand I busted and the oddest thing happened. (keep in mind the guy that was behind moved about 10ft and was standing next to some slot machines still watching me) She flipped her up card over the top of the hole card and placed it in the discard tray without showing her holecard. I didnt say anything. For the next 5 or 6 hands I busted two more times. She did it once again and I didnt say anything. On the third time I asked her why she wasn't showing her card at the end of the hand. She replied Why do you want to see the holecard? I replied just wanted to see if I played my cards right is all. Is it standard practice to not show your card if we're playing 1v1? and she said I dont have to show you the holecard unless you ask.

At this point I had a mad case of paranoia set in. I waited til I lost another two hands then asked to color up. I colored up and walked without cashing. I met up with my friends and gave my buddy my chips since he is spending the night in town and told him to cash in tomorrow and give me the cash.

Am I just experiencing paranoia seeing as it is my first 'successful'(relative word) attempt at CCing? Or do you think I had legitimate reason to suspect the casino was watching me closely?

Also, can the dealer decide whether or not they show the holecard? This is my first time playing headsup where the dealer threw the holecard into the discard tray without showing what they had.

Cheers,
 
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AussiePlayer

Well-Known Member
#3
You need to be careful about posting too many specifics on here. Last thing you want to do is give your identity away to the casinos on here.

Players cards have long been a debate on here, sometimes playing at that level without one can be an instant red flag to the casinos.

As far as the hole cards go I have no idea, all BJ in Aus is ENHC.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#5
AussiePlayer said:
You need to be careful about posting too many specifics on here. Last thing you want to do is give your identity away to the casinos on here.
He's right. I believe I know where you were playing...

Regarding your original post, in most jurisdictions (not including Indian joints, of course) gaming requires the hole card to be shown, so if it happens again say, "Isn't it a gaming requirement?"
 
#6
I usually let the pit get me a card if I don't have one already. They account for every chip missing from the table and need something to make their job easier. They ask everyone at the table if they stay long enough. You can bet he already asked the three tourists. Ask to see the dealer card and make a big deal about what would've happened. If they were sweating you after a couple shoes it's not a good store to go to.

I had a friend ask me to check the pen on a game and they spent almost five minutes trying to figure out were the black chip that was missing went. The players at the table started getting involved and it got attributed to a player that had left the table. They finally placed the cut card so I left.

At a $100 buy in I wouldn't worry to much about the players card. A good rule is don't give it to them unless they ask for it and then thank them for reminding you after giving them your card. At your level ask the pit for comps. It may bring more to you.
 

Lonesome Gambler

Well-Known Member
#7
Shutting down a game to chase a single black, huh? Sounds like a real sweatshop, brilliant. And the hole card issue is the "hide" rule, which very nearly gives away your location. There are some casinos with a house policy of not showing the hole card unless it's needed to play out the hand.
 
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Gamblor

Well-Known Member
#10
Noonan said:
[/I] I replied just wanted to see if I played my cards right is all. Is it standard practice to not show your card if we're playing 1v1?
Did you actually say this? Your sounding too smart. You should more say something like "I just wanted to see if I should have hit or not". And then start slamming the table, cursing, and going into a near epileptic fit when you see the card and made the "wrong decision" :)

As 21 mentioned, it wasn't heat from the pit, sounds like you were one of the bigger players at a small casino, they just wanted to comp you. And asian guys hovering around a table, when isn't there one of those? I think of them as "luck vultures" :laugh:

As far as the dealer, yeah a little odd, but maybe she just didn't like you because you were winning and weren't tipping or something.
 
#11
bjcardcounter said:
How many decks is this game?
6D.



I thought i was pretty vague in my description of the shop. I guess I need to leave more details out next time.

Good news is I wont be returning for awhile now that my CVBJ software should be arriving soon, giving me somewhere to focus my attention.

I definitely should have handled the dealer not showing the hole card better. I think i was impaired at the moment because i was beginning to get paranoid. Next time I should do something similar to what Gamblor suggested.
 
#12
To me personally, based on my experience and your details, I dont think it was heat. As others pointed out, they ask everyone to get a players card, and people hovering over a table isnt unusual. But leaving because you were paranoid was the right call either way; cant focus if youre paranoid.
 

tribute

Well-Known Member
#13
Noonan said:
Am I just experiencing paranoia seeing as it is my first 'successful'(relative word) attempt at CCing? Or do you think I had legitimate reason to suspect the casino was watching me closely?


,
I don't believe this was heat. Don't know about the hole card. When I play heads up, the dealer always shows me the card before putting it in the discard rack.
 
#14
Noonan said:
I thought i was pretty vague in my description of the shop. I guess I need to leave more details out next time.
It's not that you included too many details, it's that you asked about a rule that is only found in a small handful of casinos in a pretty small region. I really wouldn't worry much about it, but I thought it was worth bringing to your attention in case you're feeling paranoid.
 

Nynefingers

Well-Known Member
#15
Lonesome Gambler said:
It's not that you included too many details, it's that you asked about a rule that is only found in a small handful of casinos in a pretty small region. I really wouldn't worry much about it, but I thought it was worth bringing to your attention in case you're feeling paranoid.
Best I can tell, it is not only found in that one region, however other details in this thread do pretty much limit it to the region you are almost certainly thinking of.
 
#16
I believe I experienced a very similar situation 2 days ago. I was counting in one of the Eastern US shops at one of the $25 dollar table only spreading up to $100. In the first shoe I went down $300, after that things started to go well and I ended up, up over $1200. I did not realize that until later because of rathole-ing.

About 15 minutes before I was done I noticed a guy standing behind me watching the table (possibly my play), he stood there for a while and finally walked away. About 5 minutes go by and the sweet good looking female dealer is replaced by what I have read to be called a "slick rick" out of regular shift change. The new dealer began flipping cards out as fast as he could and some of them ending up on the floor.

Since I have only been doing this for a couple months I was not quite sure how to handle it, I knew I was actually up even though he reported a loss so I made some excuse of I need to walk around for a bit and colored up, cashed out, and left the casino.

I am pretty sure I had my first run in with countermeasures, and now I am uncertain as to when to return. I actually really like this particular place, or I would not be concerned about it. Also my play was being rated at the time on my players card.
 
#19
Nynefingers said:
Probably not a great idea to take over $1k in chips off of the table in the span of one shoe...
You are right and there is some humor in this because I try to plan so much about making a big deal out of losing, cover bets, but I never did practice at home what to do if I just happen to more than double my buy in money in one shoe :)
 
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