H17 8 deck games

[blackjackstudent]

Assuming that penetration is between 75% and 85% penetration, why are those games so bad to play?

I mean I can understand why 8 deck games are bad to play because as the number of deck increases, the odds favour the house but why does the H17 rule add another 0.2% advantage to the house?

 

[tfg]

Easy, because there's more hands that the dealer will make in the long run now by hitting on the 17. Surely there'll be times when the hitting on 17 will benefit you, but more times it will benefit the dealer.

 

[bj bob]

Assuming that penetration is between 75% and 85% penetration, why are those games so bad to play?

I mean I can understand why 8 deck games are bad to play because as the number of deck increases, the odds favour the house but why does the H17 rule add another 0.2% advantage to the house?

Just think of S-17 in reverse terms. What does BS tell the player to do with an A-6. Either hit or dd, right? In other words BS is telling you than a soft 17 is still an incomplete hand and needs to be improved, so forcing the dealer to stand on such a hand has to be beneficial to the player while hitting it would be the correct move.

 

[21forme]

Another way to look at it is 17 is a losing hand (if every one of your hands were 17, you'd lose money in the long term.) The rule gives the dealer an opportunity to improve it. In case you weren't aware, 18 is also a losing hand, but not by much.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

8 decks is bad because less time is spent in the end of the shoe where the count fluctuates more rapidly. You'll see fewer high true counts, therefore less opportunities to bet large at an advantage.

Let us look at a 6 deck shoe. Nothing much usually happens in the first two decks, right? In my experience, it does not.

With 8 decks, that adds another two decks at the beginning where not much is likely to happen. All of those bets at near neutral counts cost the player money.

 

[moo321]

Assuming that penetration is between 75% and 85% penetration, why are those games so bad to play?

I mean I can understand why 8 deck games are bad to play because as the number of deck increases, the odds favour the house but why does the H17 rule add another 0.2% advantage to the house?

The best SCORE you might see on a game like that would be around $40 an hour with a 1-15 spread.

 

[creeping panther]

Truth

The best SCORE you might see on a game like that would be around $40 an hour with a 1-15 spread.

Any casino that offers 8 decks, let alone H-17, is not worthy of your patronage, period!!:whip:

Turn and walk away.

CP

 

[Cardcounter]

Hit 17 is especially beneficial to the dealer because a lot of the time players will have already busted out and the players left will likely have 17 or better. The dealer is most likely to get soft 17 showing an ace up. Plus if the dealer had a 6 up and you had hands of 15 and 18 that you stayed on the dealer will beat your 18 more often than it will lose to the 15 hitting it out.

 

[21forme]

Any casino that offers 8 decks, let alone H-17, is not worthy of your patronage, period!!:whip:

Turn and walk away.

CP

While I don't like H17 games, they are far from unbeatable. As a matter of fact, as the count increases, the difference diminishes and there's a point where H17 actually has a higher EV than S17.

If I came across an almost full table of S17 vs. an empty table of H17, I'd sit at the H17 game.

 

[creeping panther]

21

While I don't like H17 games, they are far from unbeatable. As a matter of fact, as the count increases, the difference diminishes and there's a point where H17 actually has a higher EV than S17.

If I came across an almost full table of S17 vs. an empty table of H17, I'd sit at the H17 game.

Whatever floats your boat.

CP

 

[FLASH1296]

If the H17 8 decker offers Late Surrender and > 75% pen' it is a playable table if uncrowded.

 

[Finn Dog]

If the H17 8 decker offers Late Surrender and > 75% pen' it is a playable table if uncrowded.

By the way, what is the minimum pen on an standard 8D S17 game (no surrender) for that game to be considered worth playing?

 

[creeping panther]

Flash

If the H17 8 decker offers Late Surrender and > 75% pen' it is a playable table if uncrowded.

IMHO it may be playable for a very few, but for most not playable. I think a great disservice is done to new players to lead them to believe that this type of game is anything but junk and worth their valuable time and money.

Unless you are a very skilled tracker with a big bank...lets cut out this Bull s***.

CP

 

[sagefr0g]

IMHO it may be playable for a very few, but for most not playable. I think a great disservice is done to new players to lead them to believe that this type of game is anything but junk and worth their valuable time and money.

Unless you are a very skilled tracker with a big bank...lets cut out this Bull s***.

CP

exactly, just anyone not capable of playing like a computer to the extreme for long periods of time with a bankroll most could only dream of and then willing to risk all of that bankroll, foughetaboutit. lol.
these levels of games are only any good for some 'playful' nipping at the heals sort of thing for most predators, lmao.
if it's all that's available, just 'jones' the game using some 'street smart' play taking what you can get or losing as little as possible. in other words just try and make it a learning experience that hopefully you get paid a little for or that you don't pay to much for.

 

[21forme]

You guys just don't have experience playing this kind of game. I see it in AC all the time. It's very simple - wong in, wong out. No magic required.

 

[creeping panther]

21

You guys just don't have experience playing this kind of game. I see it in AC all the time. It's very simple - wong in, wong out. No magic required.

The catch is I gotta life, and it sure doesn't entail back counting 8 deck games for hours.

CP

 

[sagefr0g]

You guys just don't have experience playing this kind of game. I see it in AC all the time. It's very simple - wong in, wong out. No magic required.

lmao, ok 21forme, hey with your money and talent even i could handle it.:laugh:

 

[Blue Efficacy]

If you see an H17 8 Decker that cuts off half a deck, I think that is a game that one should be happy to play.

I have on occasion seen such games in my parts.

All things being equal 8D H17 should be avoided.

However, one must look at the big picture, not just the # decks and rules.

Also, one must look at shuffles. A beatable shuffle can easily make up for the difference between H17 and S17, and then some. IF you know how to exploit it.

Harrah's H17 8 deckers offer nothing worthwhile, and should be avoided as a sucker game. Same with many Atlantic City games.

Nevertheless, some good 8D games exist, and some of them even have H17.

 

[blackjackstudent]

What do you mean by beatable shuffles? I can understand why you need 93% penetration to beat these horrible games but what is meant by beatable shuffles?

 

[Blue Efficacy]

What do you mean by beatable shuffles? I can understand why you need 93% penetration to beat these horrible games but what is meant by beatable shuffles?

Some shuffles lend themselves to shuffle tracking, some shuffles do not. ASMs also do not. If you know how to properly exploit a simple shuffle, an 8 deck game can be beaten handily even if the pen is poor.

I will not say anything more on the subject in public.