I don't know if this has been discussed before but would it be possible for someone to run a sim to determine how many times hard 17 loses to 9, 10 and ACE? I would assume one hundred thousand hands would be sufficient, but I do not own and have never used the sim programs. I'm trying to determine if surrendering hard 17 (mostly on high counts of course) is more profitable than the conventional wave off. I know BS tells us in the long term standing is the best way to act, but for some reason, I don't think so. Maybe it's because I remember the hands I lose moreso than the hands I win :laugh: I would use rules such as the Northeast uses: 8 deck, h17, das, dbl any two, ls etc. 6 deck, s17 same as above. Thanks in advance.