Heat at DD

[bj bob]

Can't agree more

Well I do play s-17 dd with LS and I must say done proberly you can do very well with a 1-3 or 1-4 as Paddy says,,,the key here is done properly, of this I have no doubt.

CP

Now CP, you're exposing your intelligence. Of course, as a well-honed AP, you're going to do your homework before you even take a seat. Half of an AP's job is done prior to coloring in.

 

[jopke]

It can be taken as a dead give away of an experienced player,,,I always notice when a player does that on my table so I pay special attention to their play until I make a conclusion as to skillz level.

CP

i've played poker for so many hours it is really, really hard for me to not shuffle chips. I catch myself doing all kinds of chip tricks when I'm bored. I've gotta break that habit...

 

[Billy C1]

Other players=no concern

Couple things I'd differ with you on, CP. First the skill level of OTHER players is totally insignificant, and second "chip shuffling" means close to nothing. They're watching bet spreads and little else.

BillyC1

 

[kewljason]

Couple things I'd differ with you on, CP. First the skill level of OTHER players is totally insignificant, and second "chip shuffling" means close to nothing. They're watching bet spreads and little else.

BillyC1

I disagree. They are watching bet spreads and nothing else, once they have made the decision to run a skill check on you. But there are factors like your behavior at the table, interactions with other players and the dealer, how you play certain hands and as CP eluded to, how you handle your chips, (and of course mumbling the count...lol) that can lead to the request of such a skill check, that you want to avoid.

 

[creeping panther]

Billy

Couple things I'd differ with you on, CP. First the skill level of OTHER players is totally insignificant, and second "chip shuffling" means close to nothing. They're watching bet spreads and little else.

BillyC1

Thanks for the input.

It may just be me but I like to know the skill level of the players sitting at the table with me, also it lets me know if they will be bringing heat on me because they may be a known highly skilled played and thus being watched themselves.

Shuffling the chips, well it is surely one of the things that gets my attention to key on that player as to their skillz level,,,so I also assume the pit may notice,,even the eye.

As to their watching bet spreads almost exclusively, not totally accurate,,,,recently while playing the finest HL DD I have ever played, (and that is saying alot), and using cover, I was banned on my highly accurate Insurance calls,,,I was told this by none other than the Table Games Manager and Head Of Surveillance while personnaly banning me, expressing amazment at my calls and shaking my hand, asking me to have no hard feelings, that I was welcome to play any other game and to have dinner on them.

But I still lost access to a great game.

CP

 

[mathman]

you're all right

I don't disagree with any of you. You're all right. Betting patterns, act, interactions with the pit and other players and shuffling chips. One big thing is insurance. Insurance attracts allot of attention...JtMM
.

 

[riggler]

I don't disagree with any of you. You're all right. Betting patterns, act, interactions with the pit and other players and shuffling chips. One big thing is insurance. Insurance attracts allot of attention...JtMM
.

I made four out of five insurance calls correctly within a 7 minute span. Count was high. Two players. Dealer was fast. Ther other guy at the table was pissed, cause he lost all the hands. The dealer (who I hadn't played with all weekend) asked, "Can you see the cards?" I laughed it off saying, "I used by x-ray vision."

Of course my count (Red 7) called for taking insurance. Even still, I admit getting 4 out of 5 insurance bets correct in such a small time frame must have been astronomical. It was a 4D shoe. Maybe it was because I'm such a low-better. But there was no heat for insurance.

 

[Billy C1]

I guess I don't think another "good player" at the table is a bad thing (diverts attention from me?)
Poker players are notorious chip shufflers and many people play both games. That's why I don't see it as a real attention getter.
Many of these things depend on where we're playing and knowing the parameters. Personally, I use VERY little cover because of it's cost. It's difficult to find a good enough EV that allows "cover expense" along with dealer tokes and other overhead.
As Jason alludes, you can't be too obvious (saying the count outloud, etc.) but cover costs are prohibitive in my world. Seldom lowering of the ramp is about the extent for me and that isn't "free" either.

BillyC1

 

[creeping panther]

Cover

I guess I don't think another "good player" at the table is a bad thing (diverts attention from me?)
Poker players are notorious chip shufflers and many people play both games. That's why I don't see it as a real attention getter.
Many of these things depend on where we're playing and knowing the parameters. Personally, I use VERY little cover because of it's cost. It's difficult to find a good enough EV that allows "cover expense" along with dealer tokes and other overhead.
As Jason alludes, you can't be too obvious (saying the count outloud, etc.) but cover costs are prohibitive in my world. Seldom lowering of the ramp is about the extent for me and that isn't "free" either.

BillyC1

Billy, the reason you don't need cover is very obvious....................................................it is that gorgeous Buxom, "Baby Got Back" blond always hanging over your shoulder, sporting the low cut top and all that cleavage and Oh,,,so tight jeans,,,gently stroking your very noticable, large,,,,.....................................................................................................................moustace!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: That is getting all the attention from the eye!!!!!:grin::laugh::laugh:

And as you say,,"that isn't free either".

CP

 

[Zero]

recently while playing the finest HL DD I have ever played, (and that is saying alot), and using cover, I was banned on my highly accurate Insurance calls

Not sure if this is part of the cover you were using, but Snyder discusses insurance camouflage in BBiBJ. He writes that taking even money on all naturals will cost a card counter less than one hundredth of one percent. Even a flat bettor will only suffer an additional disadvantage of .000135 or so. He also mentions that it especially looks good when you're playing two hands and take even money on a natural but don't take insurance on the other hand (because the count did not call for insurance). At my level of play I certainly don't need to worry about cover, but I'll keep this tidbit in my back pocket in case I ever make it to the HL tables.

0

 

[mathman]

Not sure if this is part of the cover you were using, but Snyder discusses insurance camouflage in BBiBJ. He writes that taking even money on all naturals will cost a card counter less than one hundredth of one percent. Even a flat bettor will only suffer an additional disadvantage of .000135 or so. He also mentions that it especially looks good when you're playing two hands and take even money on a natural but don't take insurance on the other hand (because the count did not call for insurance). At my level of play I certainly don't need to worry about cover, but I'll keep this tidbit in my back pocket in case I ever make it to the HL tables.

0

That's actually an interesting idea. When put in that situation with a base bet out accepting even money on a random basis could be good for cover and in a base bet situation it wouldn't cost as much as losing a place to play. Certainly worth thinking about...JtMM

 

[Billy C1]

Billy, the reason you don't need cover is very obvious....................................................it is that gorgeous Buxom, "Baby Got Back" blond always hanging over your shoulder, sporting the low cut top and all that cleavage and Oh,,,so tight jeans,,,gently stroking your very noticable, large,,,,.....................................................................................................................moustace!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: That is getting all the attention from the eye!!!!!:grin::laugh::laugh:

And as you say,,"that isn't free either".

CP

Darn you CP! You're ruining my low profile image.

BillyC1

 

[bigplayer]

Not sure if this is part of the cover you were using, but Snyder discusses insurance camouflage in BBiBJ. He writes that taking even money on all naturals will cost a card counter less than one hundredth of one percent. Even a flat bettor will only suffer an additional disadvantage of .000135 or so. He also mentions that it especially looks good when you're playing two hands and take even money on a natural but don't take insurance on the other hand (because the count did not call for insurance). At my level of play I certainly don't need to worry about cover, but I'll keep this tidbit in my back pocket in case I ever make it to the HL tables.

0

Best cheap insurance cover is even money on naturals AND insure good hands (19-20) for much less regardless of the count.

 

[21forme]

Best cheap insurance cover is even money on naturals AND insure good hands (19-20) for much less regardless of the count.

I like that!

ON the subject of shuffling ships, I don't think it means anywathing. In my experience, most proficient "chip shufflers" are poker players, and most poker players are terrible BJ players.

 

[aslan]

Wait isn't taking even money on every blackjack the same as playing a game where Blackjack pays 1:1?

Good catch, so you definitely would not want to do this repeatedly. It is impossible to believe that Snyder would recommend taking even money on ALL naturals. That would amount to playing worse than a 6:5 game, which we are all agreed is unbeatable except by extraordinary means. Am I wrong? Does anyone have Snyder's verbatim remarks?

 

[21gunsalute]

Good catch, so you definitely would not want to do this repeatedly. It is impossible to believe that Snyder would recommend taking even money on ALL naturals. That would amount to playing worse than a 6:5 game, which we are all agreed is unbeatable except by extraordinary means. Am I wrong? Does anyone have Snyder's verbatim remarks?

No, it only comes into play when the dealer has an Ace showing.

 

[Cardcounter]

DD in vegas!

If you can afford to play the good double deck games in vegas the one with $50 or $100 minimums you could win with a 1-2 spread literally they are that good. You are talking a game that starts out with only a .2% advantage before comps.

 

[aslan]

No, it only comes into play when the dealer has an Ace showing.

But of course! What was I thinking?

 

[flyingwind]

If you can afford to play the good double deck games in vegas the one with $50 or $100 minimums you could win with a 1-2 spread literally they are that good. You are talking a game that starts out with only a .2% advantage before comps.

Is that correct? Can someone sim this to confirm? (Some earlier posts were debating this exact issue of what spread is needed. Of course, maybe the correct answer should not be posted in this public forum.)

 

[MeWin$]

Ok

OK, s17 DAS RSA LS 4.5 pen 6d, a great strip game.

Spreading 100 to 200, leaving at TC -3, a healthy 64.53 an hour, score 18.42 1%RoR 80,000 bank and a mere 543 hours of perfect play to have an 85% chance of being ahead.

Good luck