Help me solve this!

[Godfather]

Hey everyone im new here.
Just wanted to ask a question involving card counting.
My friend and I got in a dispute over the local casino's black jack table.

He said it was "impossible to card count there because they use 6 decks and the insert a divider close to 2 and a half decks in, once it reaches the divider they re-shuffle and re deal.

I told him there were advanced methods of counting and he said it was simply impossible because there was 2 and a half deck of cards not accounted for.

Can someone please help me ?

 

[rukus]

its not impossible, but it is basically unwinnable. you cannot consistently get to a high enough count to start spreading your bets in profitable situations. even if you did reach a high enough count by the time you played through 3.5 decks, you'd hit the cut card before the high cards started coming out (at least most of the time). so it is insanely unprofitable to play with only 3.5/6 penetration, in fact most dont even like to play unless they can get better than 4.5/6 deck penetration. now that answer is for basic card counting. if you can use advanced tactics like track slugs of high or low cards through a shuffle and have the cut card, you could cut them far enough in front so that they play out before the poor penetration point is reached. additionally if you can track aces very well, you could cut those to certain places as well. so the short answer is: with basic card counting it is not impossible to count the decks, it is just extremely unprofitable (unless you are VERY patient in your backcounting). with advanced techniques, if you are VERY good at using them, you can probably beat these games, though ive never tried anything on a table with that kind of shitty penetration.

rukus

 

[Canceler]

Here's the deal...

How far they deal into the shoe is what we call "penetration" ("pen", for short). For a 6-deck shoe, cutting off 1 1/2 decks would be acceptable pen. Cutting off less than one deck is excellent pen. Cutting off 2 1/2 decks is atrocious pen, to the point where counting is not impossible, but most would consider it unplayable.

So, in the sense that counting wouldn't be worth doing in that game, maybe your friend was right.

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

I wonder what night of the week Godfather went gambling.

Here in my neck of the woods they give better deck penetration during the weekdays when the sun is out. At least 2/3rds and sometimes 3/4's.

Then on the weekend i swear the cut nears fifty percent. They raise the minimum bet too. So i stay away then.

 

[ihate17]

2+ decks is not rare

I wonder what night of the week Godfather went gambling.

Here in my neck of the woods they give better deck penetration during the weekdays when the sun is out. At least 2/3rds and sometimes 3/4's.

Then on the weekend i swear the cut nears fifty percent. They raise the minimum bet too. So i stay away then.

Cutting 2.5 decks is horrible but it is not rare. If they cut less than a deck where you play you are fortunate compared to some others. Though I do not play blackjack there anymore, I live near a casino that regularly cuts between 2 and 2.5 decks and since they use ASM's, they lose little to nothing by doing this. Godfather might be a neighbor of mine.

Living nearby, I do know people who work at this casino. It is extremely profitable, I am told sometimes all of their slots are taken. At the same time they had meetings about why they are not making as much as they had in the past on their table games. If they would ask me (and they would not) it is because with poor rules (6d, H-17, no surrender) they probably never get enough lucky players, who tell other players and then return over and over again. Instead it appears that the same hardcore group of ploppies come back till they run out of money. Also, no incentives on table games but free play type incentives on slots.

ihate17

 

[EasyRhino]

I'm convinced that no ploppy can "feel" the difference between a 0.3% house edge game and a 0.6% house edge game. The civilian aficionado might know that one is better than the other, and even the ploppy might get ticked if they're not allowed to resplit aces or surrender or whatever, but I don't think the rules would have enough impact on perceived luck to affect anything.

But not having good promotions on the table games can definitely hurt.

But anyway, Godfather, rukus has the right idea, while it's not any more difficult to count such a game, it's fairly tough to win money by counting such a game. However, if you simply backcounted and only played during positive counts, it would still be definitely profitable (but there would be a lot of standing around and watching and waiting).

 

[Godfather]

I'm convinced that no ploppy can "feel" the difference between a 0.3% house edge game and a 0.6% house edge game. The civilian aficionado might know that one is better than the other, and even the ploppy might get ticked if they're not allowed to resplit aces or surrender or whatever, but I don't think the rules would have enough impact on perceived luck to affect anything.

But not having good promotions on the table games can definitely hurt.

But anyway, Godfather, rukus has the right idea, while it's not any more difficult to count such a game, it's fairly tough to win money by counting such a game. However, if you simply backcounted and only played during positive counts, it would still be definitely profitable (but there would be a lot of standing around and watching and waiting).

What would be the most efficient counting method for this scenario and what would be the best counting method for a 1 1/2-2 deck pen.
thanks,

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

your friend is wrong, and nobody has mentioned a very powerful tool.. WONGING! where i play, i will hop in and out of the same shoe multiple times, and i dont even spread my bets, and im already playing with an advantage, and the penetration is 70%.. also, if they cut off 3 decks, that doesnt only mean you wont get really high counts, but you also wont get really low counts, but of course when your spreading your bets, its all about the high counts, as your just min betting at the really low counts, or not playing at all.. id say 50% penetration is beatable, but you wont be playing more than half your hands.. also, remember most of the APs here consider "beating" as at least a .5% advantage, and some are crazy and consider anything under 1% as "not even worth it".. i consider .1% an advantage, as it technically is, but dont quit your day job!