Help the Enemy....please.

[tlop]

I recently opened a small poker room and casino in South America. In the entire place we have just 4 Poker Tables, 2 BJ and 1 Roulette Wheel. My specialty is poker and that is really the concentration of the Casino. That being said, we still need to make money on our table games.

Unfortunately, for our first two months, the traffic has been ok, but very short of where we want it to be for the table games. There is a much, much larger competitor less than two blocks away who I am thinking we are going to have a hard time competing against if we are offering the exact same games. This specific competitor offers just standard BJ. Spanish is the only variation I know that is offered in the entire city.

Therefore, I am thinking of changing at least 1 of the 2 BJ tables to some different variation, maybe something similar to Double Attack. The game is appealing to me in that the changes from BJ are not very complicated for the player. I will say the low house EV scares me a bit though.

However, as you guys have a ton of experience in BJ, I am very interested to hear what you think. What would you do in my situation? Would you change the actual game or just run promotions for standard BJ? If so what games or promotions? If you have any additional questions for me, I will try to answer them the best I can.

Thanks,

Oscar

 

[Stoney]

give your coustomers a good blackjack game with good rules, keep an eye out for counters who bet huge, but dont harass the small fye, dont be paranoid....in the long run the skilled players will not cause your operation to fail, how well or poorley you treat your customers will. There are more than enough loosing players to make up for the few good ones and never forget.....YOU HAVE TO SEND OUT SOME WINNERS IF YOU WANT TO BRING IN THE LOOSERS. A lesson many Casinos would be well served to adhere to

 

[tlop]

I think you missed my point

I am just trying to generate traffic. I don't think we can do so offering standard BJ because of our size and our competition right next door.

I'm looking for ideas on how to generate traffic. At this point, I am considering offering a BJ Variation, but I am open to all ideas.

Thanks,

Oscar

 

[Stoney]

if you offer a better game than them, less decks, more favorable rules, word will spread, they will come.

What does your competion offer for blackjack? Do you know?

 

[Sonny]

The easiest thing to do is to offer some sort of promotion. Either better comps or maybe some coupons that the players can use at the tables. That way you don’t have to change the game at all. Things like Matchplay coupons and Free Ace coupons are very cheap to make and distribute.

Double Attack BJ is also good. Don’t worry about the low house edge because most players will make lots of mistakes and raise the house edge. You could also try games like SuperFun 21 or Blackjack Switch.

You might also think about side bets like Over/Under 13, Royal Match, Perfect Pair, or something like that. That way you can keep the same BJ game but add an exciting new option for players who want it. People who don’t want to play it can still play the regular BJ game without making the side bet.

The bad part about new games or side bets is that you have to train your dealers and buy new layouts for the tables. A side bet is nice because it is simple and easy to train the dealers. The easiest way to generate traffic is going to be with a good promotion.

You might also start some blackjack tournaments. Let a few people sign up for free and give them a chance to win some money or prizes. That will get more traffic and get more people interested in blackjack. Once they start playing they are more likely to continue playing after the tournament, especially if they won some money. Once people get interested you can start charging a small entry fee for the tournaments to help cover the costs.

-Sonny-

 

[Stoney]

When Mohegun Sun opened in the 90's Foxwoods was already well established nearby and at the time was probably the largest Casino in the world. Mohegun offered convention surrender in their Blackjack game, which Foxwoods did not. Foxwoods subsequently changed their rules in fear they would loose business

 

[tlop]

if you offer a better game than them, less decks, more favorable rules, word will spread, they will come.

What does your competion offer for blackjack? Do you know?

I have thought about this. Not trying to be offensive here, just honest: Our clients our extremely ignorant. Our hold percentage here is much higher than anything you would find in the US. The huge majority of our clients, if not every one of them, have never studied basic strategy. Therefore, I don't think just making the rules more player friendly will have a significant effect.


Thanks,

Oscar

 

[Stoney]

Have you been in Foxwoods recently, nobody knows basic Strategy there either and I think the same is true of almost any casino

 

[Sonny]

The huge majority of our clients, if not every one of them, have never studied basic strategy. Therefore, I don't think just making the rules more player friendly will have a significant effect.

You might be surprised. For example, if you offer the surrender rule then probably most of your patrons will not use it properly. Adding more player-friendly rules may actually increase your hold. Even though the house edge is lower, you are giving the plays more chances to make mistakes which will increase your profit. Surrender is also a good rule because it makes the players feel more in control. When they have a bad hand they can give it up. That makes the game more fun for them and more profitable for you.

-Sonny-

 

[Stoney]

also, from what I've seen one thing the players seem to know, is a good game, dont ask me how they know because their playing skills wouldnt indicate that they should know....but in general they do

 

[tlop]

Our Current Rules

Here are our current rules:

8 Decks
Hit on soft 17
Surrender on first two except against ace
Player may draw to split aces
Player may resplit aces
Dealer hits on soft 17

Am I forgetting something?

Thanks,

Oscar

 

[Sonny]

Can you surrender before the dealer checks for a blackjack? Does the dealer take a hole card right away or after the players have played their hands?

-Sonny-

 

[tlop]

Can you surrender before the dealer checks for a blackjack? Does the dealer take a hole card right away or after the players have played their hands?

-Sonny-

Dealer takes card after players have played their hands.

Oscar

 

[nightspirit]

what like people more in your area, blackjack or poker? Add one BJ table more and remove one poker table. Don't know your hold percentage of the poker game but Blackjack is by far faster and therefore you get more $/hour. (My local casino has only 2 BJ tables, terrible but for other reasons...) What are your table min/max bets?

 

[moo321]

You need to advertise. Your problem probably isn't your games. Sit down and ask some players what they think of your games vs. the games across the street. Start putting out flyers, matchplay coupons, come up with a good comp system, run poker tournaments, run blackjack tournaments, run slot tournaments, do publicity stunts, maybe buy some print, radio or TV ads (but be careful, because some of these are too expensive) etc.

 

[bj bob]

Amen Brother Sonny!

You might be surprised. For example, if you offer the surrender rule then probably most of your patrons will not use it properly. Adding more player-friendly rules may actually increase your hold. Even though the house edge is lower, you are giving the plays more chances to make mistakes which will increase your profit. Surrender is also a good rule because it makes the players feel more in control. When they have a bad hand they can give it up. That makes the game more fun for them and more profitable for you.

-Sonny-

I'm with you 100% on that one. The more expansive the rule variations, the more the average Joe will screw them up.
Just look at the example of surrender, we as AP's have to memorize exact TC and index points to make that a +EV play, anything else is just putting $ in the house's pocket. All sidebets and "juicy rules" just add to the bottom line of the house in gereral, while making the average customer feel like they're getting some "edge".
If this is a small town we're talking about here then word will get around fast. The next thing we need to know is what your competition is offering. That's your starting point. Number of decks, penetration H/S-17, DAS,DOA? From this point we can guide you more accurately.

 

[InPlay]

Here are our current rules:

8 Decks
Hit on soft 17
Surrender on first two except against ace
Player may draw to split aces
Player may resplit aces
Dealer hits on soft 17

Am I forgetting something?

Thanks,

Oscar

I would do this for a 6 deck shoe.

6deck
Dealer stays on soft 17
RSA
Doubledown anything first two cards
Surrender on first two cards
70% peneration.

Also offer a double deck game with the same rules. Then just sit back and watch the money roll in. The aren't enough smart people in the world to beat you. Look at Las Vegas where they offer the good games (MIRAGE). Still making millions. Most players do not have the bankroll to beat you. Maybe short term but in the long run the casino WINS. Sooner or later they all die broke or become publishers of books.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Here is the secret

The most misplayed rule at any blackjack table is surrender. So offering surrender is a sure winner for the casino. Most skilled players only know the Late Surrender strategy, so offering Early Surrender is sure to confuse them and increase house edge even further.

Make sure you allow players to double after splitting, and it is to your advantage to have players doubling as often as possible, so allow players to double on any number of cards.

One thing casinos don't realize is that to make any money they have to be dealing, and if they are shuffling they are not dealing, so you want to make the shuffle as simple as possible and deal for as long as possible without shuffling. Make sure the dealers put the cut card in about a half deck from the end of the shoe. See dealers are lazy and would rather shuffle than deal, so you have to be constantly on them about this. Also, no need to do complicated shuffle procedures as they just waste time. Just split the shoe in half and riffle through it once, that's all you need to do so you can get back to dealing and winning the patrons' money.

Send me a message and let me know what casino you are running, I'd love to come down and play poker sometime.

 

[EasyRhino]

Send me a message and let me know what casino you are running, I'd love to come down and play poker sometime.

I agree. Also, poker players like it when they can play in "teams" with a few other players at the table, so you should encourage that too.

Tlop, I hate to say it, but I don't think a message board of advantage players is the place to get advice on how fill a casino with civilian players.

My biggest general suggestions would be to ask: what type of "environment" are you trying to create in your casino, and what's the competition offering next door. If you casino is a small, intimate place, then you want small, intimate games. If you are going to whiz bang bright lights and loud noises to seperate fools from their money faster, just have attractive dealers wear bikinis (see: Rio bikini pit, hooter casino, Playboy club).

The other thing is your competition, you probably want to diferentiate. If they're also dealing shoe games of blackjack then you might consider switching to pitch games, either single or double decks. The rules probably don't have to be particularly generous, you're just trying to create a different feel and pace of the game. Downside of pitch games it they'd require a little more dealer skill.

Offering generous rules might work. But you'd probably need to advertise it, in a "bet blackjack in town" sort of way. You already offer surrender, which I agree is probably misplayed more than it's played. If you switched the rules to S17, then they would be pretty good rules, the only way to decrease your edge further would be reducing the decks, or offering "special" rules like six-card charlie, double on any three cards, or hit on split aces.

Comps and loyalty mailers might work well. Correction: it WILL work well (see Harrah's) If you take better care of your players than the big joint, it will probably be a great way to build loyalty.

So, if you make your rules more generous, please PM me. And if you adopt a bikini pit, please send pix. thx!

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Here are our current rules:

8 Decks
Hit on soft 17
Surrender on first two except against ace
Player may draw to split aces
Player may resplit aces
Dealer hits on soft 17

Am I forgetting something?

Thanks,

Oscar

that is a sweet game.. that would be a rare game here.. house edge is .32% assuming DA2, DAS, split to 4 hands