How much do you walk into the casino with?

RollingStoned · Oct 20, 2011

Thanks guys, especially flash. I'll just be playing with 5$/units for a short period, 1-2 hours. I guess that's 500-1000$ ?

And my first two questions were more out of curiosity. Do you just walk up to a table and throw down 2 grand? Or do you have a stack of 100's in your pocket and pull a few out every time you're out of chips on the table?

I really want to get into counting (well, I already am into it..just haven't done it in a casino..yet), just tough without any substantial income (I'm 19, in college, no job).

(And I don't really have a problem with walking around loaded...I just need to get that bankroll. >< )

ringlejames · Oct 21, 2011

kewljason said:

First off, no disrespect intended. I was simply making a sarcastic comment. I mean we all know, and I quote, you of course, "Those of us that do this routinely on a daily basis may tend to sometimes lose focus and become complacent. A real bad habit. review and change up your routines regularly, before an 'event' reminds you to do so. "

Second, 2x e.v. is not a good run. How many times in an hour do you reach e.v., go beyond e.v., and lose e.v. each hour. It is a constant battle only if you let it be. I am not going to sit there and pointlessly gamble/count for the next 45 minutes hoping to get more money only to reach the exact same outcome or worse. Yes I maybe a counter but I am by no means insane or a gambler. Why if I am already above the expected value, stay and battle back and forth with the house for the next 45 minutes. It is pointless and greedy not to mention insane.

Expected value is expected value. Again why battle for the next 45 minutes only to reach the EXPECTED OUTCOME. It is again insane. Yes I make more, but I may also lose a lot more. Not that I have to worry for the time being but say I was you. Why sit there and again play for 45 minutes only to reach the same outcome. Its ludacris. Its crazy. Its GAMBLING. I count to supplement my income. Not to make money. What I make is already spent. I just ensure myself that I can spend it. Expected value is not just a word with no meaning for me as in sounds like it is for you. I take it at its core. If it tells me I should not make more than $26 an hour yet I find myself at $52 in 15 minutes. HAHA. I am going to take that as a sign to get my ass up and go home AND THAT i WAS LUCKY. And not spend the next 45 minutes trading cash between me and the dealer only to reach the same outcome yet putting another $700-3500 in play. Only to get another couple of units or lose the ones I have. 1 unit in this game is everything.

Last thought and comment. I play the way I play, you play the way you play. It is disrespectful to try and tell me how to play even if you think it is helpful. I know my skill. I aint no ploppy bitch. I may post a few things on here to mislead people. Maybe if I was a back counter wonging in you might be correct. But I am usually not a back counter. Thank you for your time.

jaygruden · Oct 21, 2011

ringlejames said:

This has yet to be determined:laugh:

Severity8 · Oct 21, 2011

ringlejames said:

Show the gorilla some respect :flame: and if you'll follow this helpful link you will find all the answers you seek.

http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/ga/index.php

ringlejames · Oct 21, 2011

I aint a gambler for one. Tops I may play 5 hours a week. Walking away with $500 average. However, recently, because I have only been getting indica medicine instead of sativa, I have been only making about 2-3 units an hour which has forced me to play green chip which I really dont like to do because the casinos, however much they put up with my counting, does not necessarily like it when I am green chipping. I have not had a losing trip in a while. Like a long time. Maybe me positing links to pictures of my tax papers that have the reason for the taxes would shut quite a few mouths on here.

Either way I like blackjack chat. Keep the insults coming.

RollingStoned · Oct 21, 2011

Can you guys try to keep this thread on topic? If you want to flame eachother/eachother's strategies, please do so in separate thread and/or in private messages (if this forum allows for PMs).

Thanks.

ringlejames · Oct 21, 2011

RollingStoned said:

Certainly. I just want to add that comments made to me meant to hinder my play do not work. I have been at it a long time. I know how I play and why I play the way I do. Most of the reasons I play the way I do is because of casino tactics to hinder my play or debase me, intimidate me or what ever else I can come up with.

And everyone giving advice that you know will only hinder a players ability to be a counter or a good counter. Keep your comments to your damned self. Leave the secret society bullshit to the secret society's and stop trying to negatively influence would be counters to make wrong decisions so you can play a few more years. STOP BEING SELFISH AND BE HONEST. I stopped doing that today. You should do the same

Sonny · Oct 21, 2011

ringlejames said:

That's called the Gambler's Fallacy. Check out the sticky threads in the voodoo forum to understand why that logic is faulty. This is also a good one:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=23080

-Sonny-

aslan · Oct 21, 2011

Sonny said:

True that 2 X EV as a benchmark for cashing in is part of the Gambler's Fallacy syndrome. I have a similar strategy, but for what I think is a logical reason.

I have noticed that, in more cases than not, I begin casino play with some good wins in the first several hours of play. Then, I noticed over the years that if I stayed and played an extended session, sometimes all night, I invariably would either wind up with a lesser winning amount, or with a loss. My belief that it is all one continuous session kept me playing for these long periods without fear of future losses, but it never seemed to work out that way. Then it hit me-- the longer I play, the more tired I get, the more stale my thinking gets, and the more apprehensive and negative I become. I find I play my best with a fresh, rested mind and a positive outlook.

Because of this, I decided to see what I could do in the first few hours, then quit, not because I feared the table gods would take back my winnings, but because I wanted to be at my very best when I play. This works for me. Now I enjoy my trips more than ever, spend more time with my wife, enjoy the restaurants, shows and other amenities at the hotels, and get a full night's sleep, ready to hit the tables bright-eyed and bushy tailed the next day. I guess one of the first rules of success in any venture must be: Know thyself!

But let me stress again, I do not believe in benchmarks for quiting unless it is to eat, sleep, take part in some previously planned activity, or now, to make sure I am at my very best. If a thing is worth doing, it's worth doing right.

arrando · Oct 21, 2011

ringlejames said:

When you find yourself up 2x ev, now all that money you just earned is in the past. After this, or any win or loss, you still have exactly the same ev as before. The cards have no memory that you have just won $52. So, the odds stay the same if you count. You will always have a greater chance of making more money than losing it. Fluctuations are killer and the only way to virtually guarantee your expected value is to keep playing and the long run will hit eventually. By the way, I've had many sessions where I made your $52 only to walk away in the end with $1000, very glad that I stayed.
There are a couple reasons I guess for stopping play though. One would be fatigue like you start forgetting the count or forgetting some basic strategy. Another one would maybe be limiting your stress. I have a $5 unit and I only bring maybe $800 to a casino for a session. That means I can only lose $800 at a time. I do this because I am afraid that if I bring more, I will get too stressed and start pressing bets to recoup massive negative variance if that were to hit.
So when you say that, when you get up this 2x ev, if you keep playing, then you will only be playing to reach the same outcome or worse, this is wrong. You should be saying that you will be playing to reach worse, same outcome, or better, with a 1.5% or so bias towards better.

jaygruden · Oct 21, 2011

"Do casinos close when they meet their EV?"

- 21forme
- Executive Member

Perhaps the best quote on this subject.

jaygruden · Oct 21, 2011

RollingStoned said:

There are many varying opinions on this question but I think if you are playing $5 units then you will draw huge suspicion plopping $2K on the table upon buy in and then throw out one red chip. You will bring heat on yourself. $100 at a time buy in is sufficient then pull out another Benny when needed. Or at most buy in for $250 at start and you look normal playing red.

Don't you have to be 21 now to get into any casino? You've got two years before walking in there unless you have a fake ID. You've got a lot of time to build a BR. Maybe some Indian stores require you to be only 18? Not sure I guess.

ringlejames · Oct 21, 2011

jaygruden said:

In most states you would be right. Infact I do believe it is all, but one. On my last trip to washington, my brother wanted to tag along. He keet saying that in that state you can play at 18. I kept saying exactly wat you were saying. You have to be 21. Because I thought that you did? He got on his phone put it on speaker and next thing I know I was giving him a BENNY because he was right. LOL. My brother and I have a standing rule that whenever there is an argument with two opposiong point of views the loser of the argument has to pay the other person a bill. So you can bet, lol, that there are not much bets between us.

Cheers

FLASH1296 · Oct 21, 2011

In some states, e.g. New York, tribal casinos accept cash from 18 year old players

NAP · Oct 21, 2011

ringlejames said:

In most states you would be right. Infact I do believe it is all, but one. On my last trip to washington, my brother wanted to tag along. He keet saying that in that state you can play at 18. I kept saying exactly wat you were saying. You have to be 21. Because I thought that you did? He got on his phone put it on speaker and next thing I know I was giving him a BENNY because he was right. LOL. My brother and I have a standing rule that whenever there is an argument with two opposiong point of views the loser of the argument has to pay the other person a bill. So you can bet, lol, that there are not much bets between us.

Cheers

Did you tell the dealer that your brother was a card counter?

ringlejames · Oct 21, 2011

FLASH1296 said:

Thanks wish I would have known that when I was studing the game before I was 21.

ringlejames · Oct 21, 2011

NAP said:

Brother dont count he does magazine covers and owns a kennel. A real teen entrapenuar. Been in the magazine cover and dog breeding business since he was 15. Has more money saved than I have won from counting. About six months from now he is going to be building his own house and some land bordering Sardis lake. Proud of him. It took me a few years after I was 18 to reach my full potential.

Lonesome Gambler · Oct 21, 2011

ringlejames said:

Um...

OK, staying somewhat on topic:

I can think of a pretty good reason to leave a casino once I hit 2xEV for a session, especially for my home game.

blackjack avenger · Oct 21, 2011

simple answer

Access to half Kelly bank for 2 days, full Kelly beyond that. If you ever get close to tapping out, bring more in the future.

aslan · Oct 21, 2011

Lonesome Gambler said:

I hope it doesn't include belief that you have a greater chance of losing it back because you are ahead of what your EV should be. Many players do this because they are risk adverse, and we all know that for counters there is no avoiding risk in the short run. Playing with money that you need can contribute to that kind of thinking. Rule of thumb: Don't play with money you can't afford to lose.

If there was a way to predict what the immediate future will bring, we would not all be millionaires, because the casino would no longer offer these games. And if we quit because now we have enough for the car payment, we should not have been playing in the first place.

Another benchmark I sometimes use is the end of a long positive count, which may coincidentally bring me to 2 x EV. My session strategy is aimed at getting to one of these long positive plus counts, so when they appear, I play them to the fullest. After that I have two good reasons to quit: (1) for the sake of cover I almost always leave after a long positive count no matter what the outcome, and (2) long positive counts don't grow on trees, and I don't want to commit myself to possibly several shoes before another one comes (i.e., I don't necessarily want to spend that much time playing at any one time). Of course, it is entirely possible that they will come back to back, just not as likely. Anyone else think like I do?

As for your home game, I can see you leaving at 2 x EV if only for the sake of longevity. It's eventually telltale if the only time you ever leave is after a long positive plus count. I assume by home game, you mean a store that you routinely play and casino staff pretty well know your face and style of play.

How much do you walk into the casino with?

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