Illustrious 18 / Fab 4 (Hi / Lo System)
- Thread starter Teetime11
- Start date
Unfortunately, not identifying whether a game is 3:2 or 6:5, either on the felt or by sign is not only happening at Indian Casinos. It is happening more and more right here in Vegas. Games I am not familiar with, I ask. And occasionally I forget and am suckered in, until I or another player gets a blackjack.
Wow I wouldn't think they can get away with that in LV too.
You should fire off some emails to whoever oversees those games, politicians, other casinos, local news channels, etc. I've had success doing things like that.
I used to ask, and they always just act confused.
So now I don't even ask, I think that's a tell. Nobody asks unless you are smart.
You should fire off some emails to whoever oversees those games, politicians, other casinos, local news channels, etc. I've had success doing things like that.
I used to ask, and they always just act confused.
So now I don't even ask, I think that's a tell. Nobody asks unless you are smart.
Can anyone clear this up..
15 vs 10 is a Fab 4 Surrender at a TC of 0 or higher. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And since basic strategy is to surrender a 15 vs 10 anyway, according to the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4 it should always be surrendered, even at a TC below 0. Now, the Illustrious 18 says to stand 15 vs 10 with a TC of 4 or higher. So, let's say the TC is 4 and you are dealt 8-7 vs dealer 10. In this case, surrender is the play because the Fab 4 Surrender always overrules the Illustrious 18, with the exception of when taking insurance followed by a surrender is the correct play. So, the Illustrious 18 play of 15 vs 10 would only come into play if your first two cards do not total 15. For example, the TC is 4 and you are dealt 3-2 vs a dealer 10. You then take a hit and get a 10, making your total 15. In this case, you would stand. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks everybody!
15 vs 10 is a Fab 4 Surrender at a TC of 0 or higher. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And since basic strategy is to surrender a 15 vs 10 anyway, according to the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4 it should always be surrendered, even at a TC below 0. Now, the Illustrious 18 says to stand 15 vs 10 with a TC of 4 or higher. So, let's say the TC is 4 and you are dealt 8-7 vs dealer 10. In this case, surrender is the play because the Fab 4 Surrender always overrules the Illustrious 18, with the exception of when taking insurance followed by a surrender is the correct play. So, the Illustrious 18 play of 15 vs 10 would only come into play if your first two cards do not total 15. For example, the TC is 4 and you are dealt 3-2 vs a dealer 10. You then take a hit and get a 10, making your total 15. In this case, you would stand. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks everybody!
Teetime11 said:
Can anyone clear this up..
15 vs 10 is a Fab 4 Surrender at a TC of 0 or higher. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And since basic strategy is to surrender a 15 vs 10 anyway, according to the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4 it should always be surrendered, even at a TC below 0. Now, the Illustrious 18 says to stand 15 vs 10 with a TC of 4 or higher. So, let's say the TC is 4 and you are dealt 8-7 vs dealer 10. In this case, surrender is the play because the Fab 4 Surrender always overrules the Illustrious 18, with the exception of when taking insurance followed by a surrender is the correct play. So, the Illustrious 18 play of 15 vs 10 would only come into play if your first two cards do not total 15. For example, the TC is 4 and you are dealt 3-2 vs a dealer 10. You then take a hit and get a 10, making your total 15. In this case, you would stand. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks everybody!
15 vs 10 is a Fab 4 Surrender at a TC of 0 or higher. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And since basic strategy is to surrender a 15 vs 10 anyway, according to the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4 it should always be surrendered, even at a TC below 0. Now, the Illustrious 18 says to stand 15 vs 10 with a TC of 4 or higher. So, let's say the TC is 4 and you are dealt 8-7 vs dealer 10. In this case, surrender is the play because the Fab 4 Surrender always overrules the Illustrious 18, with the exception of when taking insurance followed by a surrender is the correct play. So, the Illustrious 18 play of 15 vs 10 would only come into play if your first two cards do not total 15. For example, the TC is 4 and you are dealt 3-2 vs a dealer 10. You then take a hit and get a 10, making your total 15. In this case, you would stand. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks everybody!
Not sure what you meant by writing this: "And since basic strategy is to surrender a 15 vs 10 anyway, according to the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4 it should always be surrendered, even at a TC below 0." Fab 4 says surrender when TC >=0. So why would you say to surrender at TC below zero? That isn't true.
Don
This is what I meant by that. Now, keep in mind I'm referring to counting via the hi/lo system, and implementing the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4 only. So, when you get a hand with a TC that the Illustrious 18 or Fab 4 says nothing about, the correct thing to do would be to revert to basic strategy, right? In other words, if you are dealt 15 vs 10 and the TC is 0, the correct play is to surrender. With the same scenario, but with a TC of 4, the correct play is also to surrender. Now, with again the same scenario but with a TC of -1, the Illustrious 18 nor the Fab 4 says to do anything. Therefore, the correct thing to do would be to revert to basic strategy, which also says to surrender. That's why I said that when counting via the hi/lo system, and using the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4 only, the correct play regardless of the TC, is to surrender. This is also assuming that there is no early surrender, but there is late surrender. Counting hi/lo using the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4 only, with good rules (late surrender, S17, and all normal stuff), is profitable, right?
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No, you are confusing two different things.
Playing basic strategy means playing without counting.
When you count and use "0" to surrender 15 vs 10, if your TC is -1, you simply hit. Cause this is what your index play is saying. The correct way to use the "0" surrender index is the following: "You surrender at TC of "0" or more, otherwise hit".
It doesn't say use the index otherwise use basic strategy. You will be using basic strategy when you are not counting or when you have a hand to play for which you have no index in your counting system or in your memory ;-) The basic strategy player will always surrender 15 vs 10 cause he has no idea of the count. When you have no idea of the composition of the remaining cards, you will always be better to surrender this hand. Not the case for you if you are counting.
Playing basic strategy means playing without counting.
When you count and use "0" to surrender 15 vs 10, if your TC is -1, you simply hit. Cause this is what your index play is saying. The correct way to use the "0" surrender index is the following: "You surrender at TC of "0" or more, otherwise hit".
It doesn't say use the index otherwise use basic strategy. You will be using basic strategy when you are not counting or when you have a hand to play for which you have no index in your counting system or in your memory ;-) The basic strategy player will always surrender 15 vs 10 cause he has no idea of the count. When you have no idea of the composition of the remaining cards, you will always be better to surrender this hand. Not the case for you if you are counting.
I've seen people surrender all kinds of stuff. Now I RARELY see people surrender correctly only. I've seen people who never surrender and people who surrender 12 vs 10. I agree the most common surrender is 16 vs 10. I have no problem taking insurance and then surrendering. After all the reason I am surrendering is a I put a big bet out and was HOPING the dealer had BJ so I wouldn't have to play this garbage hand.I know you live in Vegas so maybe it's different there.Almost all of my surrending has been in PA with a little at Hard Rock AC when they still had it and a few sessions at Ocean since they added it. i pretty much only play double deck in Vegas since I don't care about being backed off on my few trips per year, if I lived there I'd have a different approach.
i've seen 6:5 in really tiny letters on the plack or even worse if it's computerized 6:5 listed at the bottom going across the screen like the ESPN bottom line thing so it's not even always there.
i've seen 6:5 in really tiny letters on the plack or even worse if it's computerized 6:5 listed at the bottom going across the screen like the ESPN bottom line thing so it's not even always there.