Index question.

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ScottH

Well-Known Member
When I looked at the indices for KO-Full, I noticed that they are all different for different number of decks. Does that mean I would have to learn different indices for different games? Or is there a way to learn one set of indices that works for all games?
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
ScottH said:
When I looked at the indices for KO-Full, I noticed that they are all different for different number of decks. Does that mean I would have to learn different indices for different games? Or is there a way to learn one set of indices that works for all games?
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Thats one of the drawbacks of an unbalanced RC system. It may be possible to create a composite set of indices for 2-6D, but I've never seen one.

One the other hand, balanced TC systems require only one set. zg
 
S

ScottH

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
Thats one of the drawbacks of an unbalanced RC system. It may be possible to create a composite set of indices for 2-6D, but I've never seen one.

One the other hand, balanced TC systems require only one set. zg
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From what I seen, it doesn't look like you can make a composite set. That's probably due to the different IRC's.

Is it fairly critical to know more indices when playing 2-deck games? This just gives me even more incentive to upgrade to a TC counting system. Until I upgrade I think the top 18 indices shown in the KO book will be OK.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
There, thats the one to learn! (for now)

QFIT - Can we add a few +3 indices, like XX and A9 v. 4/5/6 and 15/16 v 9 and 14 v 10, etc.?
 
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C

Cass

Well-Known Member
ScottH said:
When I looked at the indices for KO-Full, I noticed that they are all different for different number of decks. Does that mean I would have to learn different indices for different games? Or is there a way to learn one set of indices that works for all games?
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This is definately one of the drawbacks of using a unbalanced counting system. Here is how i do it using kiss III.... Example: I start at a count of 9 when it reaches 20 the count is favorable enough to increase your bet. Now the index number for standing on 16vs. 10 is 17... but that is just a rough estimate. If one deck of the six has been dealt and my count is 15 this would be appropriate to Stand. Now if 5/6 have been dealt and my rc is 16 it would be the correct move to HIT 16v10. Fudging the index numbers this way can make a unbalanced system as good as one that uses a TC.
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
There, thats the one to learn! (for now)

QFIT - Can we add a few +3 indices, like XX and A9 v. 4/5/6 and 15/16 v 9 and 14 v 10, etc.?
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Indexes can certainly be added. But it does mess with the simplicity.
 
S

ScottH

Well-Known Member
QFIT said:
For 2d-6d composite set, see the reKO system at http://www.qfit.com/REKOStrategy.htm. This is as good as the KO-P set but clearly not as good as KO-Full.
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I know that in the book they set most of those indices for a RC of +4. I notice that this site said to take them all at +2. The only added indices are 12v4 and soft 19 vs 5+6. I am just wondering why it would be better for me to use this set at +2 instead of the set listed in the KO book at +4. I do use KO-Preferred right now, which suggests most of these at +4.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
ScottH said:
I know that in the book they set most of those indices for a RC of +4. I notice that this site said to take them all at +2. The only added indices are 12v4 and soft 19 vs 5+6. I am just wondering why it would be better for me to use this set at +2 instead of the set listed in the KO book at +4. I do use KO-Preferred right now, which suggests most of these at +4.
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Does reKO use different IRC? zg
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
KO-Pref is designed to be used with 1, 2, 6 or 8 decks. Many compromises are made to get it to work for all four. reKO is designed for 2 and 6 decks only - the most commonly played games outside of AC. This allows a simplification in the indexes without loss of performance. However, it does not perform well for SD or 8D.

The IRC is the same for 6D but different for DD.
 
S

ScottH

Well-Known Member
QFIT said:
KO-Pref is designed to be used with 1, 2, 6 or 8 decks. Many compromises are made to get it to work for all four. reKO is designed for 2 and 6 decks only - the most commonly played games outside of AC. This allows a simplification in the indexes without loss of performance. However, it does not perform well for SD or 8D.

The IRC is the same for 6D but different for DD.
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Even though I would be making the BS departures at +2 instead of +4, would I still use my same betting ramp as used in the KO book?

For 6 deck the book says to bet 2u at -4, 2u at -3, 3u at -2, 4u at -1, 5u at 0, 6u at +1, 8u at +2, 9u at +3, and 10u at +4.

For 2 deck(IRC=-4) they say to bet 2u at +1, 3u at +2, 4u at +3, and 5u at +4. Of course I would adjust these for the different IRC in reKO.
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
The betting ramps are unaffected by these index changes except for the DD IRC change. Betting ramp is more affected by penetration.
 
Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
Mackhack said:
What means reKO?
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reKO: Rediculuously Easy Knock Out counting method. Follow the link given above in a prior post to see the details. If I were you and seriously considering taking up KO, I'd buy the book (available here from Ken).
 
Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
There are several "versions" of the popular KO system. In addition to the reKO, there is a TKO (true count) and probably others not mentioned in the book (Rookie, Preferred, Full.) It (KO) is a pretty darn flexible method of counting and adaptable to most any level of player...assuming they are willing to exert a bit of time to learn and gain the appropriate speed in execution.
 
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Mackhack

Well-Known Member
Well first I learned HI-LO and "mastered" it. After i read several articles about KO I bought the book, studied again and trained myself to make it 100 % and not just slopy.

Honestly (and ok I don't have 100k or even millions of $$ as a BR like MIT BJ Team), I don't see any differences in gaining advantage using HI-LO vs. KO but KO is way easier and more relaxed to play and I can act way easier as a person who never played BJ before, I can talk to my buddy during play.

Does anyone has different or similar things to mention about HI-LO vs. KO?
 
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