Index question.

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#1
When I looked at the indices for KO-Full, I noticed that they are all different for different number of decks. Does that mean I would have to learn different indices for different games? Or is there a way to learn one set of indices that works for all games?
 
#2
ScottH said:
When I looked at the indices for KO-Full, I noticed that they are all different for different number of decks. Does that mean I would have to learn different indices for different games? Or is there a way to learn one set of indices that works for all games?
Thats one of the drawbacks of an unbalanced RC system. It may be possible to create a composite set of indices for 2-6D, but I've never seen one.

One the other hand, balanced TC systems require only one set. zg
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#3
zengrifter said:
Thats one of the drawbacks of an unbalanced RC system. It may be possible to create a composite set of indices for 2-6D, but I've never seen one.

One the other hand, balanced TC systems require only one set. zg
From what I seen, it doesn't look like you can make a composite set. That's probably due to the different IRC's.

Is it fairly critical to know more indices when playing 2-deck games? This just gives me even more incentive to upgrade to a TC counting system. Until I upgrade I think the top 18 indices shown in the KO book will be OK.
 
#6
There, thats the one to learn! (for now)

QFIT - Can we add a few +3 indices, like XX and A9 v. 4/5/6 and 15/16 v 9 and 14 v 10, etc.?
 
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Cass

Well-Known Member
#7
ScottH said:
When I looked at the indices for KO-Full, I noticed that they are all different for different number of decks. Does that mean I would have to learn different indices for different games? Or is there a way to learn one set of indices that works for all games?
This is definately one of the drawbacks of using a unbalanced counting system. Here is how i do it using kiss III.... Example: I start at a count of 9 when it reaches 20 the count is favorable enough to increase your bet. Now the index number for standing on 16vs. 10 is 17... but that is just a rough estimate. If one deck of the six has been dealt and my count is 15 this would be appropriate to Stand. Now if 5/6 have been dealt and my rc is 16 it would be the correct move to HIT 16v10. Fudging the index numbers this way can make a unbalanced system as good as one that uses a TC.
 

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#8
zengrifter said:
There, thats the one to learn! (for now)

QFIT - Can we add a few +3 indices, like XX and A9 v. 4/5/6 and 15/16 v 9 and 14 v 10, etc.?
Indexes can certainly be added. But it does mess with the simplicity.
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#11
QFIT said:
For 2d-6d composite set, see the reKO system at http://www.qfit.com/REKOStrategy.htm. This is as good as the KO-P set but clearly not as good as KO-Full.
I know that in the book they set most of those indices for a RC of +4. I notice that this site said to take them all at +2. The only added indices are 12v4 and soft 19 vs 5+6. I am just wondering why it would be better for me to use this set at +2 instead of the set listed in the KO book at +4. I do use KO-Preferred right now, which suggests most of these at +4.
 
#12
ScottH said:
I know that in the book they set most of those indices for a RC of +4. I notice that this site said to take them all at +2. The only added indices are 12v4 and soft 19 vs 5+6. I am just wondering why it would be better for me to use this set at +2 instead of the set listed in the KO book at +4. I do use KO-Preferred right now, which suggests most of these at +4.
Does reKO use different IRC? zg
 

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#13
KO-Pref is designed to be used with 1, 2, 6 or 8 decks. Many compromises are made to get it to work for all four. reKO is designed for 2 and 6 decks only - the most commonly played games outside of AC. This allows a simplification in the indexes without loss of performance. However, it does not perform well for SD or 8D.

The IRC is the same for 6D but different for DD.
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#14
QFIT said:
KO-Pref is designed to be used with 1, 2, 6 or 8 decks. Many compromises are made to get it to work for all four. reKO is designed for 2 and 6 decks only - the most commonly played games outside of AC. This allows a simplification in the indexes without loss of performance. However, it does not perform well for SD or 8D.

The IRC is the same for 6D but different for DD.
Even though I would be making the BS departures at +2 instead of +4, would I still use my same betting ramp as used in the KO book?

For 6 deck the book says to bet 2u at -4, 2u at -3, 3u at -2, 4u at -1, 5u at 0, 6u at +1, 8u at +2, 9u at +3, and 10u at +4.

For 2 deck(IRC=-4) they say to bet 2u at +1, 3u at +2, 4u at +3, and 5u at +4. Of course I would adjust these for the different IRC in reKO.
 

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#15
The betting ramps are unaffected by these index changes except for the DD IRC change. Betting ramp is more affected by penetration.
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#17
Mackhack said:
What means reKO?
reKO: Rediculuously Easy Knock Out counting method. Follow the link given above in a prior post to see the details. If I were you and seriously considering taking up KO, I'd buy the book (available here from Ken).
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#19
There are several "versions" of the popular KO system. In addition to the reKO, there is a TKO (true count) and probably others not mentioned in the book (Rookie, Preferred, Full.) It (KO) is a pretty darn flexible method of counting and adaptable to most any level of player...assuming they are willing to exert a bit of time to learn and gain the appropriate speed in execution.
 

Mackhack

Well-Known Member
#20
Well first I learned HI-LO and "mastered" it. After i read several articles about KO I bought the book, studied again and trained myself to make it 100 % and not just slopy.

Honestly (and ok I don't have 100k or even millions of $$ as a BR like MIT BJ Team), I don't see any differences in gaining advantage using HI-LO vs. KO but KO is way easier and more relaxed to play and I can act way easier as a person who never played BJ before, I can talk to my buddy during play.

Does anyone has different or similar things to mention about HI-LO vs. KO?
 
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