Is it normal for casinos not to spread cards face up when changing decks?

[nicetrades200303]

An Indian casino game is 2D, H17, D9, DAS, split to four hands, no resplitting aces, no surrender.

Is it normal practice for casinos to change decks and not spread the cards face up for players to see? This pit boss gives the dealer four decks; dealer takes two decks and riffle one time and put in the automatic shuffle machine; she does the same for the other two decks. This is how it's done, including the high limit room.

So I went around different tables counting down the number of cards dealt before reaching the cut card. I counted 14 times. The average was 81 cards, low 76, high 86.

The pen is good. But the skeptical side of me feels something is too good to be true. Could the decks be rigged in someway? Just thinking. Thanks.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

That is definitely NOT normal. Every casino I've ever played in always spreads the new cards.

 

[Gamblor]

I would imagine casinos do this more to protect themselves than the players.

 

[collegebj]

Both Indian casinos by me spread the decks. Are the decks still sealed in plastic wrap when they are given to the dealer? If not i would be much more skeptic.

 

[nicetrades200303]

That is definitely NOT normal. Every casino I've ever played in always spreads the new cards.

Most Indian casinos in my state, despite their bad games, spread the decks for the playing public to see. Vegas casinos spread the decks, right. I remember they do, last time I was there about a year ago.

Not only that they don’t spread the cards face up, the dealers aren’t given a chance to count the decks to make sure there are 52 cards in each deck. These seem strange to me, as if the casino wants to conceal something.

Would it be wise to politely ask them to spread the cards face up the next time I see a deck change taking place or why is that they don't spread the cards face up?

 

[collegebj]

Most Indian casinos in my state, despite their bad games, spread the decks for the playing public to see. Vegas casinos spread the decks, right. I remember they do, last time I was there about a year ago.

Not only that they don’t spread the cards face up, the dealers aren’t given a chance to count the decks to make sure there are 52 cards in each deck. These seem strange to me, as if the casino wants to conceal something.

Would it be wise to politely ask them to spread the cards face up the next time I see a deck change taking place or why is that they don't spread the cards face up?

If you are playing with an advantage there it might be a bad idea. It would certainly draw extra attention. That being said if its not a fair game its already to -EV to play anyways so being backed off wouldnt be a problem. If you know anyone who is a ploppy maybe consider having them come with you and asking innocently? ex "Hey why dont you spread the decks, every other casino does it?"

 

[Dyepaintball12]

I used to read a Professional Card Counter's blog and he wrote that once he was playing in Eastern Europe at a casino that did NOT spread the cards and he asked them if they would start doing it so he knew it was fair.

He said the next day when he walked in they had begun spreading the cards to accommodate him.

 

[HockeXpert]

I would imagine casinos do this more to protect themselves than the players.

If by "this" you mean spread the cards, I agree.

To the OP, it not "normal" for a casino to not spread the cards but the practice is spreading in Indian casinos. However there are two oddities in your description.

1. I have never seen a casino NOT inspect the backs of the cards before dealing and

2. I've seen dealers change decks on dd game in slightly more time than it takes to go the bathroom. While I can understand a casino wanting to speed things along on an 8d game but dd? Never heard of it. Simplify the shuffle procedure if dd changes are taking too long.

 

[aslan]

When casinos do not spread the cards face up as a matter of policy, it opens the door to foul play, not that I am accusing anyone ofanything. The simple matter is, if a casino wanted to pull a fast one on occasion, they could easily introduce cards with a few aces missing, or some other such nonsense, to catch some big whale. Since 99.99% of the time they would be on the up and up, the gaming commission, or whoever is in authority, would be hard pressed to catch them in the act. I always assume the play in 100% above board, but I always check to see the fronts of the cards. If I don't see them, I don't play there. As John Kennedy (and a lot of other people) once said: "I trust everyone, but I always cut the cards myself."

 

[FLASH1296]

I would NEVER play BJ in a casino that fails to inspect the cards while players are observing.

The procedure is certainly considered to be "universal" throughout the gaming industry.

The SOLE reason for failing to use the proper casino protocol is to permit casino cheating.

That is not to say that they are cheating all of the time, or, for that matter, some of the time;

but the option remains for them to do so, should they wish to.

What you need to ask yourself is: Why would they fail to do so ?

 

[bigplayer]

An Indian casino game is 2D, H17, D9, DAS, split to four hands, no resplitting aces, no surrender.

Is it normal practice for casinos to change decks and not spread the cards face up for players to see? This pit boss gives the dealer four decks; dealer takes two decks and riffle one time and put in the automatic shuffle machine; she does the same for the other two decks. This is how it's done, including the high limit room.

So I went around different tables counting down the number of cards dealt before reaching the cut card. I counted 14 times. The average was 81 cards, low 76, high 86.

The pen is good. But the skeptical side of me feels something is too good to be true. Could the decks be rigged in someway? Just thinking. Thanks.

More common place now...casinos now getting multiple decks in pre-shuffled packs. The just count them, shuffle them, and begin play. Pre-shuffled packs mean they don't have to do a wash before play.

 

[aslan]

More common place now...casinos now getting multiple decks in pre-shuffled packs. The just count them, shuffle them, and begin play. Pre-shuffled packs mean they don't have to do a wash before play.

I have no problem with that if the gaming commission has approved the company from which the cards are procured. Isn't that what they do with Baccarat as well? Still, it does leave the door open a bit for potential cheating. The mere sealing of decks of cards is no absolute insurance of honesty. I've know card cheaters who opened decks of cards, marked them, then resealed them, and placed them on store shelves. When it comes to cheats, you cannot be too careful.

 

[Gamblor]

I have no problem with that if the gaming commission has approved the company from which the cards are procured. Isn't that what they do with Baccarat as well? Still, it does leave the door open a bit for potential cheating. The mere sealing of decks of cards is no absolute insurance of honesty. I've know card cheaters who opened decks of cards, marked them, then resealed them, and placed them on store shelves. When it comes to cheats, you cannot be too careful.

Plus hilarious scenes like this can ensue!

http://www.youtube.com/v/HNojDiuxY_g&hl=en&fs=1?null

Blofeld: 20. Your move, Mr. Bond.

Bond: I'll take a hit, dealer. [Homer gives him a card] Joker! You were supposed to take those out of the deck.

Homer: Oh, sorry. Here's another one.

Bond: What's this card? "Rules for Draw and Stud Poker"?

Blofeld: What a pity, Mr. Bond. [Odd Job and Jaws grab Bond and drag him out]

Bond: But...but it's Homer's fault! I didn't lose. I never lose! Well, at least tell me the details of your plot for world domination.

Blofeld: Ho ho ho, I'm not going to fall for that one again

 

[nicetrades200303]

I would NEVER play BJ in a casino that fails to inspect the cards while players are observing.

The procedure is certainly considered to be "universal" throughout the gaming industry.

The SOLE reason for failing to use the proper casino protocol is to permit casino cheating.

That is not to say that they are cheating all of the time, or, for that matter, some of the time;

but the option remains for them to do so, should they wish to.

What you need to ask yourself is: Why would they fail to do so ?

So I went to the casino, played the 2D game for a little bit. A voluptuous MILF with the name tag “Cindy, Pit Manager” brought two decks of cards (already opened and combined) to this drop-dead gorgeous, very friendly dealer. As she was riffling the cards, I asked the dealer, “Aren’t you going to spread the cards face up for everybody to see?” She said, “ No, we don’t do that. The machine (turning her head at the automatic shuffle machine) will tell us if we’re short.” Pretending to be ignorant, I said, “Really, the machine is that good?”

My last play was losing two hands of max bet 6 units each hand at KO RC of 12 with 1.25 decks in discard tray. Four out of five players at the table lost that hand. I left promising myself not to come back.

My feelings just tell me something is fishy.