Just got started, a few questions...

[tab8715]

1 - It appears that even if I have memorized basic strategy the odds are still either not significant or still against me. Is this true?

2 - Counting isn't illegal however a casino just like any other business can ask you to leave any time you want. They cannot hold your winnings.

3 - You should know basic strategy and know how to count before you even touch a table.

4 - If you're playing with less than $100 the most you'll make with bs/counting is less than $10/h.

5 - Is there something wrong with the basic strategy trainer? Sometimes I match the dealer but my chips are still taken. WTF?

That's all I have for now... I'm currently reading Kevin Blackwood's book.

 

[Harman]

1 - It appears that even if I have memorized basic strategy the odds are still either not significant or still against me. Is this true?
BS improves your odds significantly but the house still has an advantage, and you cannot suceed in counting without knowing it like the alphabet

2 - Counting isn't illegal however a casino just like any other business can ask you to leave any time you want. They cannot hold your winnings.
True. Except I believe it is illegal in Monte Carlo

3 - You should know basic strategy and know how to count before you even touch a table.
If you want to beat blackjack, of course. However if you want to have fun, just enjoy yourself. You might make more than a professional by pure luck

4 - If you're playing with less than $100 the most you'll make with bs/counting is less than $10/h.
If you mean 100 bankroll then you cannot make a decent ammount, maybe even less than 10 an hour. Your average per hour is usually your min bet.

5 - Is there something wrong with the basic strategy trainer? Sometimes I match the dealer but my chips are still taken. WTF?
Which one are you using? This isn't right...

That's all I have for now... I'm currently reading Kevin Blackwood's book.
Enjoy the book and good luck

Hope this helps

 

[Sonny]

1 - It appears that even if I have memorized basic strategy the odds are still either not significant or still against me. Is this true?

Yes, the house still has the advantage.

2 - Counting isn't illegal however a casino just like any other business can ask you to leave any time you want.

Right, although if they ask you to leave you can usually come back later and keep playing.

3 - You should know basic strategy and know how to count before you even touch a table.

That’s up to you. Just about everybody I’ve ever seen at the tables doesn’t play basic strategy. Most people just play for fun and don’t bother learning how to play properly. It’s their money and it’s their decision. However, if you want to play with an advantage then you should be able to play BS and count before you go to the casino to continue practicing. It will take several visits to the casino before you begin to feel comfortable playing for real money.

4 - If you're playing with less than $100 the most you'll make with bs/counting is less than $10/h.

Do you mean a bankroll of $100 or a max bet size of less than $100? If your total bankroll is only $100 then you probably won’t last an hour and your EV will probably be less than $5 per hour. If your max bet is $100 ($5k-$10k total bankroll) then you might be able to make $10-$20 per hour if you can find great game conditions.

I don’t know about the game trainer.

-Sonny-

 

[TENNBEAR]

Continue reading Kevin Blackwoods Book, it will answer all your questions in great detail. Play Blackjack Like the Pro's it is a great read.

 

[callipygian]

1 - It appears that even if I have memorized basic strategy the odds are still either not significant or still against me. Is this true?

The odds are still against you but much smaller. If you play exactly as the dealer plays, you are expected to lose $10 of every $100 you bet in the long run. If you play as the average player plays, you are expected to lose $2 of every $100 you bet in the long run. If you play with perfect basic strategy, you are expected to lose $0.50 of every $100 you bet in the long run.

2 - Counting isn't illegal however a casino just like any other business can ask you to leave any time you want. They cannot hold your winnings.

This varies by jurisdiction. In Nevada, they can ask you to leave at any time for any reason because Nevada courts have ruled that casinos are "masters of their domain" :grin: . In New Jersey, they can only ask you to leave for a specific list of reasons, of which card counting is not one of them.

In either state, there's plenty the casino can do to you without verbally asking you to leave - sticking the cut card in at 33% penetration is a surefire sign that they know you're counting and they don't like it. Take the hint and leave voluntarily, as you've been non-verbally asked to leave.

In neither state can they refuse to cash your chips unless you're cashing out a very large amount (in which case they may need to "verify" that you won them legitimately) or unless they believe a legal crime (as in theft, fraud, etc.) has occurred.

 

[tab8715]

Wow, thanks for all the replies anyway more questions!

1 - According to the Basic Strategy Engine it says the Casino Edge is .44 or 44%. So, I'd win 56% of time correct? 4 Decks, DAS, S17, NS, Peek

2 - I've seen the Trainer on the main page error out a few times... unless it's just me...

3 - Is there some kind of freecalculator to see how much of a bankroll, conditions, min/max bet I need to be making at least $10/h? I don't see the point of playing just for fun when I'm losing money...

4 - How long does it take average Joe to learn how to count and memorize basic strategy? I know I am the personally type but I'm ADD however the drugs help :grin:

5 - If they can't kick you out for counting in Jersey, I would assume they have awful rules but then they wouldn't make any money.

6 - Sticking the cut card at 33%? What does this mean?

 

[zengrifter]

If your max bet is $100 ($5k-$10k total bankroll) then you might be able to make $10-$20 per hour if you can find great game conditions.

Its a little better than that!! zg

 

[shadroch]

Wow, thanks for all the replies anyway more questions!

1 - According to the Basic Strategy Engine it says the Casino Edge is .44 or 44%. So, I'd win 56% of time correct? 4 Decks, DAS, S17, NS, Peek


NO



4 - How long does it take average Joe to learn how to count and memorize basic strategy? I know I am the personally type but I'm ADD however the drugs help :grin:

A FEW WEEKS TO A FEW MONTHS,DEPENDS ON YOUR ABILITY AND WILLINGNESS TO PRACTICE.

5 - If they can't kick you out for counting in Jersey, I would assume they have awful rules but then they wouldn't make any money.

6 - Sticking the cut card at 33%? What does this mean?

THAT TWO THIRDS OF THE CARDS ARE PUT INTO PLAY

 

[Sonny]

1 - According to the Basic Strategy Engine it says the Casino Edge is .44 or 44%. So, I'd win 56% of time correct?

The house edge is 0.44%, not 44%. It means you should expect to lose 0.44% of every bet you make. For example, if you bet $10 per hand for 100 hands you should expect to lose $4.40.

3 - Is there some kind of freecalculator to see how much of a bankroll, conditions, min/max bet I need to be making at least $10/h?

There are lots of free calculators here but you will need to know your EV and SD to use them. Don Schlesinger’s book Blackjack Attack has a huge chapter of charts that have information about almost any type of game you will find. That would give you a general idea of what to expect. You could also use a simulation program to find the exact numbers for your style of play, but those programs aren’t usually free.

4 - How long does it take average Joe to learn how to count and memorize basic strategy?

You can probably learn the basics in a few months but it will take a lot more practice to be able to do it skillfully in a casino.

5 - If they can't kick you out for counting in Jersey, I would assume they have awful rules but then they wouldn't make any money.

The rules aren’t great but the games are somewhat beatable. They can still take other countermeasures against you, like limiting your bet spread or shuffling the decks early.

6 - Sticking the cut card at 33%? What does this mean?

It means they only deal out 67% of the cards before they shuffle.

-Sonny-

 

[jimpenn]

House "Rake"

"The house edge is 0.44%, not 44%. It means you should expect to lose 0.44% of every bet you make. For example, if you bet $10 per hand for 100 hands you should expect to lose $4.40." -Sonny

I know your figures are correct Sonny, but it sure seems like a person will lose more than $4.40 playing at a full table ( Seven spot/8D) for approximately two hours. Even if the dealer and player's could manage 100 hands/hr., this loss seems out of line.

 

[Sonny]

...it sure seems like a person will lose more than $4.40 playing at a full table ( Seven spot/8D) for approximately two hours.

He probably will because of the variance. Also, most people don’t play proper BS so they will lose a bit more. The house edge is what a BS player will lose on average.

-Sonny-

 

[Harman]

Wow, thanks for all the replies anyway more questions!

1 - According to the Basic Strategy Engine it says the Casino Edge is .44 or 44%. So, I'd win 56% of time correct? 4 Decks, DAS, S17, NS, Peek
Nope, believe it or not that small percentage is correct, you would lose 4.40 out of 1000 statistically.

2 - I've seen the Trainer on the main page error out a few times... unless it's just me...
I've never encountered any problems...

3 - Is there some kind of freecalculator to see how much of a bankroll, conditions, min/max bet I need to be making at least $10/h? I don't see the point of playing just for fun when I'm losing money...
Google it my friend.

4 - How long does it take average Joe to learn how to count and memorize basic strategy? I know I am the personally type but I'm ADD however the drugs help :grin:
It depends on the person and the amount of practice. 1 hour a day, everyday you could nail Hi LO in 6-7 weeks, and BS in a few days

5 - If they can't kick you out for counting in Jersey, I would assume they have awful rules but then they wouldn't make any money.
The tend to screw with the betting so you can't bet very much thus bet spreading is hard

6 - Sticking the cut card at 33%? What does this mean?
They deal 67% of the deck.. not good Wait, or does it mean they put 33% of the deck to the front?? Sorry lol not quite sure...

Good luck

 

[callipygian]

6 - Sticking the cut card at 33%? What does this mean?

I actually meant that they only allow 33% of the cards to be played before reshuffling, but I may have used the wrong term. I meant 33% penetration.

If the casino suspects you might be card counting, one of the simplest things for them to do is to play very few cards before reshuffling. This basically kills any advantage that a counter might have because the count is not allowed to rise or fall appreciably.

Normal penetration is 66% to 75%. Sticking the cut card in at 33% penetration is a deliberate hint to leave and should be viewed as such.

 

[tab8715]

Wow, thanks for all of the replies...

Are most casinos these days still 4 or 6 Decks? It doesn't seem like there's even a half-decent chance for a counter...

 

[chichow]

a lot of foreign casinos (sorry, I mean Non-USA) casinos require you to sign up just to get into a casino. So you give them your passport, then may even take a photo just to get in. One example would be casinos in London.

I think it was Missouri or some other midwestern state that has 500 dollar loss limits, so you also have to show ID/present players card just to get into the casino. Whether or not they scan you in now, I don't know.

So if you are asked to leave for "counting" , you may or may not be able to get back in to that casino.

 

[Sonny]

Are most casinos these days still 4 or 6 Decks? It doesn't seem like there's even a half-decent chance for a counter...

Most of the casinos where I play use 6 decks, although I've played a few 8 deck games as well. The multi-deck games can sometimes be the most beatable so don't get discouraged.

-Sonny-

 

[tab8715]

I wonder. Given today's rules would guys like Kevin even have existed?

I went out and played this week. Jumped in when it was hot and bailed when it was cold. I've played for about four hours.

I made $4. :grin:

 

[Canceler]

I made $4. :grin:

Reminds me of the time I played for 2 hours and won a pink ($2.50). Both the dealer and the cashier didn't think that was too bad. I was kinda hoping for more, though. :laugh: