I recently picked up the KO count and am in the process of mastering it. I can count two decks in about 52 seconds and would count more if i owned more decks. I will soon. A moderator who posts has the signature "level 1 counts are a scam." While I understand that they are not nearly as profitable as more sophisticated counts, Im told the advantage gained by using them is enough to pocket anywhere from 1.5 hand to 3 hands per hour with 1.5 being quite conservative. Are either one the case? Are they both true? To be honest, 3 units might not seem like a lot in the long run, or much at all to veterans, but it is still money. Even 2 units per hour is excellent in my opinion. However if in reality I should expect 1.5 units or less, I have some thinking to do. And yes I am well aware that in actual play bankrolls rollercoaster up and down, Im asking about the average.
As I understand it all the well known teams employed the hi-lo count. If memory serves me Ian Andersen mentioned in his excellent book Burning The Tables in Las Vegas that he favors the hi-lo count and likes th KO count. I don't know that I agree that the more difficult counts are more sophisticated.
Keep it simple-go with what you're comfortable with!:joker:
Keep it simple-go with what you're comfortable with!:joker:
This parallels the caliber debate
I read a lot of flame-war "discussions" about the virtues of the .45, .40, .357 and 9mm cartridges online a few years ago.
9mm is a damned popular, and hence cheap, cartridge. Those who prefer other calibers have many objections to it, which - I will spare you - you can find via google if you so desire.
I'm not a 9mm partisan. I use .40 mostly, which is not often, because I don't shoot much anymore. But one thing which sticks in my mind from reading all the uncivil round robins of venom is that, whatever else you can say about the effectiveness of the 9mm, plenty of bodies find their way to the morgue each day due to the 9mm, likely more than any two other calibers combined.
Sure, plenty of people will say that it's a wimp round, but the lower kick allows better shot placement.
High-low is the 9mm of card counts: it is enough to make the kill, and it doesn't have the kick of complicated arithmetic to make you miss.
I'd be perfectly happy with High-low, KO, or KISS 3. I use a level 2 count, but I'm not convinced that my error rate does not cancel out the advantages of the slightly higher EV and lower N0 which comes from level 2 tags.
I read a lot of flame-war "discussions" about the virtues of the .45, .40, .357 and 9mm cartridges online a few years ago.
9mm is a damned popular, and hence cheap, cartridge. Those who prefer other calibers have many objections to it, which - I will spare you - you can find via google if you so desire.
I'm not a 9mm partisan. I use .40 mostly, which is not often, because I don't shoot much anymore. But one thing which sticks in my mind from reading all the uncivil round robins of venom is that, whatever else you can say about the effectiveness of the 9mm, plenty of bodies find their way to the morgue each day due to the 9mm, likely more than any two other calibers combined.
Sure, plenty of people will say that it's a wimp round, but the lower kick allows better shot placement.
High-low is the 9mm of card counts: it is enough to make the kill, and it doesn't have the kick of complicated arithmetic to make you miss.
I'd be perfectly happy with High-low, KO, or KISS 3. I use a level 2 count, but I'm not convinced that my error rate does not cancel out the advantages of the slightly higher EV and lower N0 which comes from level 2 tags.
kewljason said:
Interesting topic. Perhaps, we should engage in debate about this sometime. :laugh:
Just kidding of course as this is an ongoing topic of debate, but I must say your statement is very fair and well said, no matter your side of the arguement, Avenger.
Just kidding of course as this is an ongoing topic of debate, but I must say your statement is very fair and well said, no matter your side of the arguement, Avenger.
I am not really one that should give advise as I play kind of an unorthadox hit and run style. Many other's are much more qualified, but I have some 'general' thoughts that may be helpful.
What is tolerated vary by casinos and area, so I won't attempt to answer that with out knowing what area you are playing. My familiarity only consists of the vegas area. I will say in very general terms your top wager of $100 is what I refer to as a threshold point. In some places this is one of the first levels that attracts any real attention, while others don't bat an eye at this level. If you are in an area or casino that this is an issue, you may want to consider topping off just below that at maybe $80 or $90. If you do choose to stick with $100, I would end my session at the shuffle after placing $100 wagers.
Wonging advice. Again, very dependant on the area. If you are speaking of wonging into games, that becomes difficult at low levels in crowded areas like the east coast. If you are speaking of wonging out, that's a little easier as long as other games are readily available.
Generally less cover is needed at the red chip level.
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Terminology
We don't talk in terms of hands won, but units won, 1 to 2 units is probably a realistic number. More important then the count you use is the quality of game you play and how many negative hands you play.
You have put in time learning KO
No reason to switch now
Once you have experience playing and KO is boring
if you want move up to a higher level count.
To move sideways from one level 1 count to another is not going to gain you much.
It sounds like you are not quite ready, there is more then just speed of counting down decks.
We don't talk in terms of hands won, but units won, 1 to 2 units is probably a realistic number. More important then the count you use is the quality of game you play and how many negative hands you play.
You have put in time learning KO
No reason to switch now
Once you have experience playing and KO is boring
if you want move up to a higher level count.
To move sideways from one level 1 count to another is not going to gain you much.
It sounds like you are not quite ready, there is more then just speed of counting down decks.