Lost my Bankroll at Foxwoods
- Thread starter Jay Lee
- Start date
Foxwoods
I saw a lot of small card come out and the dealer kept getting blackjack and the same patterns kept repeating which makes me think that the shuffle kept the cards the same that were stacked, clumped or short shoed. That night I was about even downstairs in Club Newport and was up a couple grand playing Bac. After I played bj for a while and was about even or up a little I went back to the Baccarat table and started betiing a thousand a hand. I asked the dealer about flat betting and she said if you are winning you should press so since I won like 10 in a row I started to bet 2 then 3k a hand. Finally I am up to 23k and pay my commission. I asked for a room and they said that they would try to get one for me even though my account was locked. I waited for about an hour just to hear Bufongu. The host said I could pay for a room but didn't even have the courtesty to get one reserved for me. Anyway Icash 10k twice on 2 sides of the casino and I go back to gamble a little more and the security guard asked me for id. Iam 27 and was up for 2 days with no sleep so I didn't feel like walking to my car. Anyway after tellingf her 3 times I needed a security guard she finally understood. I waited a few minutes and the guy finally came. It took me like a half hour to find my car and on my way back he tells me to get a room and put the money in a safe so that I don't lose it all. I go back to the security guard and she asks the security guard if he saw my id which was messed up because I told her before to ask inside because they know me and she said that she couldn't have someone vouch for me. I go back and play some roulette with no luck, I lost a few hundred. Then I played a little Bac and was about even maybe down a little. I go to the evevator to get my room and I see the button for the 25th floor. I never went there so I figured why not give it a try. At the only hundred dollar table I was down a lot then about even. I get up and go to the 200 dollar table knowing that something bad is going to happen but anyway the dealer kept puylling 20 and 21 and a lot of small cards came out but the dealer kept winning like I described before. Finally I am down to my last 6k and lose it in a few minutes. I feel violated because of the poor service at Foxwoods. I will go back there and win like 50k and never go back. F them.
I saw a lot of small card come out and the dealer kept getting blackjack and the same patterns kept repeating which makes me think that the shuffle kept the cards the same that were stacked, clumped or short shoed. That night I was about even downstairs in Club Newport and was up a couple grand playing Bac. After I played bj for a while and was about even or up a little I went back to the Baccarat table and started betiing a thousand a hand. I asked the dealer about flat betting and she said if you are winning you should press so since I won like 10 in a row I started to bet 2 then 3k a hand. Finally I am up to 23k and pay my commission. I asked for a room and they said that they would try to get one for me even though my account was locked. I waited for about an hour just to hear Bufongu. The host said I could pay for a room but didn't even have the courtesty to get one reserved for me. Anyway Icash 10k twice on 2 sides of the casino and I go back to gamble a little more and the security guard asked me for id. Iam 27 and was up for 2 days with no sleep so I didn't feel like walking to my car. Anyway after tellingf her 3 times I needed a security guard she finally understood. I waited a few minutes and the guy finally came. It took me like a half hour to find my car and on my way back he tells me to get a room and put the money in a safe so that I don't lose it all. I go back to the security guard and she asks the security guard if he saw my id which was messed up because I told her before to ask inside because they know me and she said that she couldn't have someone vouch for me. I go back and play some roulette with no luck, I lost a few hundred. Then I played a little Bac and was about even maybe down a little. I go to the evevator to get my room and I see the button for the 25th floor. I never went there so I figured why not give it a try. At the only hundred dollar table I was down a lot then about even. I get up and go to the 200 dollar table knowing that something bad is going to happen but anyway the dealer kept puylling 20 and 21 and a lot of small cards came out but the dealer kept winning like I described before. Finally I am down to my last 6k and lose it in a few minutes. I feel violated because of the poor service at Foxwoods. I will go back there and win like 50k and never go back. F them.
Dude that is a $200 game!
Down 100 units in a few hours is nothing for a 6D game. Well within normal variance. Sorry to hear about this. Not to kick you when your down or anything, but if your BR is only $20K you shouldn't be anywhere near the Stargazer room. The regular VIP room on the first floor is only $50. Still, with a BR like that you're going to get your best value Wonging the 8D shoes on the main floor. I feel comfortable Wonging those games with $2K in my pocket.
The shuffle has been modified to a straight stepladder/riffle-and-restack, with a riffle check at the end. The riffle check is very useful for identifying dealers for <self-censored>. Unfortunately some dealers to the stepladder riffles sloppily and only the R&R riffles neatly because they are the only ones checked. The shuffle is slightly more trackable than it was, but still not appropriate for all-out shuffle tracking. A two-point slug track is somewhat useful and I'll be posting the cut points for the Foxwoods slug shortly.
Good luck, and watch out for the big drunken monkey Wonging around the main floor!
Down 100 units in a few hours is nothing for a 6D game. Well within normal variance. Sorry to hear about this. Not to kick you when your down or anything, but if your BR is only $20K you shouldn't be anywhere near the Stargazer room. The regular VIP room on the first floor is only $50. Still, with a BR like that you're going to get your best value Wonging the 8D shoes on the main floor. I feel comfortable Wonging those games with $2K in my pocket.
The shuffle has been modified to a straight stepladder/riffle-and-restack, with a riffle check at the end. The riffle check is very useful for identifying dealers for <self-censored>. Unfortunately some dealers to the stepladder riffles sloppily and only the R&R riffles neatly because they are the only ones checked. The shuffle is slightly more trackable than it was, but still not appropriate for all-out shuffle tracking. A two-point slug track is somewhat useful and I'll be posting the cut points for the Foxwoods slug shortly.
Good luck, and watch out for the big drunken monkey Wonging around the main floor!
Setting the record straight
Let me start off by saying this: You were gambling and you lost. That is no reason to think that you were cheated. If you were not playing with any advantage (which your post seems to indicate) you should expect to lose. If you can't handle that, don't take it out on the casino.
> I saw a lot of small card come out and the dealer kept getting blackjack and
> the same patterns kept repeating which makes me think that the shuffle kept
> the cards the same that were stacked, clumped or short shoed.
With 312 cards in the shoe you are going to see things like this all the time. They may look like repeated patterns, but that is just your selective memory. Some of the best card sequencers can't tell one 8 of spades from the other five in the shoe. I can assure you that Foxwoods did not short the deck or knowingly stack the cards. But you don't have to take my word for it. Learn to shuffle track and see for yourself where those cards are going during the shuffle. That way you can make sure the good cards get cut to the top.
> That night I was about even downstairs in Club Newport and was up a couple
> grand playing Bac. After I played bj for a while and was about even or up a
> little I went back to the Baccarat table and started betiing a thousand a
> hand...I go back and play some roulette with no luck, I lost a few hundred.
> Then I played a little Bac and was about even maybe down a little.
It sounds like you are no stranger to losing large amounts of money. Why are you so paranoid all of a sudden? Ignore your superstitions.
> I feel violated because of the poor service at Foxwoods.
That's really a matter for the Foxwoods public relations department, not a card counting website.
> I will go back there and win like 50k and never go back.
I wish you the best of luck.
-Sonny-
Let me start off by saying this: You were gambling and you lost. That is no reason to think that you were cheated. If you were not playing with any advantage (which your post seems to indicate) you should expect to lose. If you can't handle that, don't take it out on the casino.
> I saw a lot of small card come out and the dealer kept getting blackjack and
> the same patterns kept repeating which makes me think that the shuffle kept
> the cards the same that were stacked, clumped or short shoed.
With 312 cards in the shoe you are going to see things like this all the time. They may look like repeated patterns, but that is just your selective memory. Some of the best card sequencers can't tell one 8 of spades from the other five in the shoe. I can assure you that Foxwoods did not short the deck or knowingly stack the cards. But you don't have to take my word for it. Learn to shuffle track and see for yourself where those cards are going during the shuffle. That way you can make sure the good cards get cut to the top.
> That night I was about even downstairs in Club Newport and was up a couple
> grand playing Bac. After I played bj for a while and was about even or up a
> little I went back to the Baccarat table and started betiing a thousand a
> hand...I go back and play some roulette with no luck, I lost a few hundred.
> Then I played a little Bac and was about even maybe down a little.
It sounds like you are no stranger to losing large amounts of money. Why are you so paranoid all of a sudden? Ignore your superstitions.
> I feel violated because of the poor service at Foxwoods.
That's really a matter for the Foxwoods public relations department, not a card counting website.
> I will go back there and win like 50k and never go back.
I wish you the best of luck.
-Sonny-
why not fly to vegas and play
a decent game or somewhere else where
8 unbeatable deckers are not the norm
The smart player always plays the lower minimum tables,
why be forced to bet large at high minimum tables.
Play 2deck with s17 double after split and 5 minimums with side
bets allowed plus 1000 max bets allowed with is more than
your br allows. Flying to Vegas or somewhere decent and
playing this game would probably have given you
a nice edge not a disadvantage.
a decent game or somewhere else where
8 unbeatable deckers are not the norm
The smart player always plays the lower minimum tables,
why be forced to bet large at high minimum tables.
Play 2deck with s17 double after split and 5 minimums with side
bets allowed plus 1000 max bets allowed with is more than
your br allows. Flying to Vegas or somewhere decent and
playing this game would probably have given you
a nice edge not a disadvantage.
Rough ride
> And lost like 3300 and foxwoods last night. I have 4500 left.
Those shoe games can be tough to beat. You spend all night waiting for a high count then lose every hand. Then you're stuck in a negative count for another hour or so wondering "Why am I doing this?" I certainly don't envy you folks!
So you're down to $4500? That's pretty rough. You could barely get away with a $5-$60 spread with that much. I hope you've got your backcounting shoes on!
"What doesn't bankrupt you only makes you stronger...and angrier!"
-Sonny-
> And lost like 3300 and foxwoods last night. I have 4500 left.
Those shoe games can be tough to beat. You spend all night waiting for a high count then lose every hand. Then you're stuck in a negative count for another hour or so wondering "Why am I doing this?" I certainly don't envy you folks!
So you're down to $4500? That's pretty rough. You could barely get away with a $5-$60 spread with that much. I hope you've got your backcounting shoes on!
"What doesn't bankrupt you only makes you stronger...and angrier!"
-Sonny-
I'm sorry to hear that *LINK*
I'm glad that you won, but I'm sorry to hear that you were playing baccarat. Reading some of Thorpe's work on the game should give you a better understanding of what you are up against. In fact, both Griffin and May also published information on beating the game (or, trying to at least) as well.
> And was planning to go to Vegas to play a better game with like 10k. How does
> a dd game with decent rules and about 60-65 pen compare to a game with 6
> decks and 1.5 cut off with good rules + surrender.
This is an excellent question. Unfortunately, it is one that you should already know if you are heading to Vegas with $10k. You have a LONG way to go before you are ready to hit the tables. However, since you seem to be a gambler at heart I will assume that you will ignore my warnings and jump straight to the information.
In any case, here are come preliminary results. They all assume a Hi-Low player (Ill18 & Fab 4) with a $10k bankroll and an optimal bet spread. They were generated by Norm's CVCX online, which I highly recommend you check out (http://www.qfit.com/cvcxonlineviewer.htm).
6D H17 DAS LS 75% 1:12 spread:
EV=0.845%
Win Rate=$14.98/Hour
SD/Hr=46.469
ROR=5.9%
N0=47195
DI=4.6
If you can Wong In/Out at +1 you can do much better:
EV=1.985%
Win Rate=$32.34/Hour
SD/Hr=20.92
ROR=4.7%
N0=20256
DI=7.03
DD H17 DAS 50% 1:8 spread:
EV=0.754%
Win Rate=$13.28/Hour
SD/Hr=36.78
ROR=4.6%
N0=49158
DI=4.51
As you can see, the DD with bad penetration scores the worst. In general, the most important factor is the level of penetration. You will also notice that the hourly variance in the play-all game is enormous and the long run will be more than twice as far away when compared to the backcounting strategy. That means you will risking more, earning less, and playing much longer that you need to be.
Of course, vast improvements could be made on all of these strategies, but I will leave it up to you to develop you own personal style of play.
-Sonny-
I'm glad that you won, but I'm sorry to hear that you were playing baccarat. Reading some of Thorpe's work on the game should give you a better understanding of what you are up against. In fact, both Griffin and May also published information on beating the game (or, trying to at least) as well.
> And was planning to go to Vegas to play a better game with like 10k. How does
> a dd game with decent rules and about 60-65 pen compare to a game with 6
> decks and 1.5 cut off with good rules + surrender.
This is an excellent question. Unfortunately, it is one that you should already know if you are heading to Vegas with $10k. You have a LONG way to go before you are ready to hit the tables. However, since you seem to be a gambler at heart I will assume that you will ignore my warnings and jump straight to the information.
In any case, here are come preliminary results. They all assume a Hi-Low player (Ill18 & Fab 4) with a $10k bankroll and an optimal bet spread. They were generated by Norm's CVCX online, which I highly recommend you check out (http://www.qfit.com/cvcxonlineviewer.htm).
6D H17 DAS LS 75% 1:12 spread:
EV=0.845%
Win Rate=$14.98/Hour
SD/Hr=46.469
ROR=5.9%
N0=47195
DI=4.6
If you can Wong In/Out at +1 you can do much better:
EV=1.985%
Win Rate=$32.34/Hour
SD/Hr=20.92
ROR=4.7%
N0=20256
DI=7.03
DD H17 DAS 50% 1:8 spread:
EV=0.754%
Win Rate=$13.28/Hour
SD/Hr=36.78
ROR=4.6%
N0=49158
DI=4.51
As you can see, the DD with bad penetration scores the worst. In general, the most important factor is the level of penetration. You will also notice that the hourly variance in the play-all game is enormous and the long run will be more than twice as far away when compared to the backcounting strategy. That means you will risking more, earning less, and playing much longer that you need to be.
Of course, vast improvements could be made on all of these strategies, but I will leave it up to you to develop you own personal style of play.
-Sonny-
Thanks
No more bac, if I need to build my bankroll I'll wong. Check out 1 deck das with 60 pen.
Average
Bet Results
' Std Dev Risk of
Ruin Performance
%W/L Win Rate $/Hr. Hand Hour DI c-SCORE CE CE/WR N0
2.436 2.207% 5.377 $172.06 4.087 40.870 13.3% 13.16 173.07 $86.53 0.50 5777
Count
Freq.
EV Standard
Deviation Optimal Bets
Count Win/Loss Std. Error Exact Chips
<=-1 34.61% -1.79% 0.00 1.152 1.00 32
0 34.84% 0.19% 0.00 1.139 1.00 32
1 6.41% 0.97% 0.01 1.140 2.32 74
2 8.25% 1.68% 0.01 1.143 4.00 128
3
4 6.18% 2.51% 0.01 1.144 5.96 191
5 2.06% 3.22% 0.01 1.144 7.65 245
6 3.23% 3.84% 0.01 1.143 9.14 292
7
8 2.03% 4.86% 0.01 1.138 10.00 320
9 .22% 6.05% 0.04 1.130 10.00 320
10 1.05% 6.07% 0.02 1.130 10.00 320
11
>=12 1.13% 8.05% 0.02 1.116
No more bac, if I need to build my bankroll I'll wong. Check out 1 deck das with 60 pen.
Average
Bet Results
' Std Dev Risk of
Ruin Performance
%W/L Win Rate $/Hr. Hand Hour DI c-SCORE CE CE/WR N0
2.436 2.207% 5.377 $172.06 4.087 40.870 13.3% 13.16 173.07 $86.53 0.50 5777
Count
Freq.
EV Standard
Deviation Optimal Bets
Count Win/Loss Std. Error Exact Chips
<=-1 34.61% -1.79% 0.00 1.152 1.00 32
0 34.84% 0.19% 0.00 1.139 1.00 32
1 6.41% 0.97% 0.01 1.140 2.32 74
2 8.25% 1.68% 0.01 1.143 4.00 128
3
4 6.18% 2.51% 0.01 1.144 5.96 191
5 2.06% 3.22% 0.01 1.144 7.65 245
6 3.23% 3.84% 0.01 1.143 9.14 292
7
8 2.03% 4.86% 0.01 1.138 10.00 320
9 .22% 6.05% 0.04 1.130 10.00 320
10 1.05% 6.07% 0.02 1.130 10.00 320
11
>=12 1.13% 8.05% 0.02 1.116