Max Rubin, counter-catcher?
- Thread starter zengrifter
- Start date
zengrifter said:
My last emails with Rubin. zg
Max Rubin on card-counter detection
The following quotations were taken from Max Rubin's sworn deposition, on 08/30/1994 at the Tropicana Hotel:
Q: Lawyer Daily to (Max Rubin): How long did you work as a card counter catcher?
A: Rubin Answers: A year, year and a half.
Q: Lawyer Daily: Could you tell me what your duties as a card counter catcher were?
A: Rubin Answers: Several. One I was--I had the pit, the double deck pit on grave yard where essentially the high limit play was on the Mirage on that particular shift and I was responsible for our looking at the high limit play, observe the betting patterns, those sort of things. Observing just the act the people put on, trying to identify people that were together and recognizing some sort of team play.”
...more - http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/greenbaize21/maxrubin.htm (Archive copy)
------------------
> > >From: [email protected]
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >
> > Your interview was a great read. However,
> > credentials alone don't qualify anyone for the Blackjack Ball. You also
> > have to be recommended by a regular attendee and
> > approved by the Blackjack Ball selection committee. Given
> > your extensive background in the craft, I'm sure that
> > you know many of the regulars. If you do, please have
> > one of them contact me regarding a potential
> > invitation.
> > >
> > >Max
> > >
> > >P.s. I have to be frank and tell you that your
> > >admission that you became a government informant
> > and went out of your way to entrap strangers into
> > committing crimes to get your sentence reduced
> > could be very troubling to the selection committee.
=========================
> > > griftzen replied:
> > >
> > >Max - Frankly, I didn't know previously that
> > there was a formal committee, either.
> > As for the 'informat' part of my life,
> > I understand that it could be troubling for some...
> > but these were carreer
> > telephone-fraudsters who were
> > taking down hundreds of millions in retirees'
> > IRA funds.
> >
> > I will see about getting a referral and I won't
> > get my hopes up in any event.
> > > >
> > > > Ps - Some have found it troubling that you once
> > >worked for the casinos catching counters... but I'm
> > ok with it
regards, m
=======================
>--- Arnold Snyder wrote:
>
> > Uh Marcus,
> >
> > Max Rubin has never for even one day worked as a
> > counter catcher. That probably was not the thing to say
> >to get into the party.
> >
> > I will talk with Max, but I believe that your best
> > shot would be to let it rest for this year, since
> > the party is probably at
> > limit anyway, and let me
> > bring it up for next year.
> >
> > Hang in there,
> > Arnold
=======================
> >Then Arnold Snyder wrote:
> >
> >Actually, I have found out you were right about
> >[Rubin being a counter-catcher].
> >
> >Sorry,
> >Arnold
-------------> > >From: [email protected]
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >
> > Your interview was a great read. However,
> > credentials alone don't qualify anyone for the Blackjack Ball. You also
> > have to be recommended by a regular attendee and
> > approved by the Blackjack Ball selection committee. Given
> > your extensive background in the craft, I'm sure that
> > you know many of the regulars. If you do, please have
> > one of them contact me regarding a potential
> > invitation.
> > >
> > >Max
> > >
> > >P.s. I have to be frank and tell you that your
> > >admission that you became a government informant
> > and went out of your way to entrap strangers into
> > committing crimes to get your sentence reduced
> > could be very troubling to the selection committee.
=========================
> > > griftzen replied:
> > >
> > >Max - Frankly, I didn't know previously that
> > there was a formal committee, either.
> > As for the 'informat' part of my life,
> > I understand that it could be troubling for some...
> > but these were carreer
> > telephone-fraudsters who were
> > taking down hundreds of millions in retirees'
> > IRA funds.
> >
> > I will see about getting a referral and I won't
> > get my hopes up in any event.
> > > >
> > > > Ps - Some have found it troubling that you once
> > >worked for the casinos catching counters... but I'm
> > ok with it
regards, m=======================
>--- Arnold Snyder wrote:
>
> > Uh Marcus,
> >
> > Max Rubin has never for even one day worked as a
> > counter catcher. That probably was not the thing to say
> >to get into the party.
> >
> > I will talk with Max, but I believe that your best
> > shot would be to let it rest for this year, since
> > the party is probably at
> > limit anyway, and let me
> > bring it up for next year.
> >
> > Hang in there,
> > Arnold
=======================
> >Then Arnold Snyder wrote:
> >
> >Actually, I have found out you were right about
> >[Rubin being a counter-catcher].
> >
> >Sorry,
> >Arnold
Max Rubin on card-counter detection
The following quotations were taken from Max Rubin's sworn deposition, on 08/30/1994 at the Tropicana Hotel:
Q: Lawyer Daily to (Max Rubin): How long did you work as a card counter catcher?
A: Rubin Answers: A year, year and a half.
Q: Lawyer Daily: Could you tell me what your duties as a card counter catcher were?
A: Rubin Answers: Several. One I was--I had the pit, the double deck pit on grave yard where essentially the high limit play was on the Mirage on that particular shift and I was responsible for our looking at the high limit play, observe the betting patterns, those sort of things. Observing just the act the people put on, trying to identify people that were together and recognizing some sort of team play.”
...more - http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/greenbaize21/maxrubin.htm (Archive copy)
What year was that? I know they have employees who can count cards in rl now, and also software that can analyze play, but they still have, here and elsewhere, a number of staff who could not count to ten if their life depended on it. Mirage is one place where I know that at least sometimes, as the article says, surveillance may give the suspected counter a second chance, that is, once they appear to be counting they go additional shoes just to be sure. Other places may back you off immediately the first time you raise your bets in correlation to the count. And they are very customer friendly. If ID'd you might well be asked to simply flat bet as the article states. In other cases (if you have a case file) you may well be run out of town on a rail (read the trespass act). Funny how the casinos will spend several million on surveillance equipment and then low ball (salary-wise) the people that man the equipment and make it work (or not work) to the casino's advantage. It's like spending millions on a new car for NASA and then grabbing a driver off the street to race it for you. Go figure!
Anonymous bliss
How does one go to these things, anyway? I couldn't unless I dressed up in drag to look much like Joan Rivers or wore my Darth Vader mask or... dressed in drag to look much like Joan Rivers from the neck down and ALSO wore my Darth Vader mask... I don't want my identity known. The sorts of people that would go to the trouble of identifying the sorts of people that would attend events such as these are not people that have good intentions of any kind. I am not a very trusting soul, especially when it has the possibility of having grave consequences on my income and livelihood.
How does one go to these things, anyway? I couldn't unless I dressed up in drag to look much like Joan Rivers or wore my Darth Vader mask or... dressed in drag to look much like Joan Rivers from the neck down and ALSO wore my Darth Vader mask... I don't want my identity known. The sorts of people that would go to the trouble of identifying the sorts of people that would attend events such as these are not people that have good intentions of any kind. I am not a very trusting soul, especially when it has the possibility of having grave consequences on my income and livelihood.
zengrifter said:
There's three 'Balls" - The Greenchip, the Victor Nacht Halloween Ball, and
the Rubin Ball (for the REAL PROS, invite strictly by "selection committee").
Maybe Ken will announce a Ball - The WBPITTW Ball. zg
My Acid Trip with Groucho
zengrifter said:
There's three 'Balls" - The Greenchip, the Victor Nacht Halloween Ball, and
the Rubin Ball (for the REAL PROS, invite strictly by "selection committee").
Maybe Ken will announce a Ball - The WBPITTW Ball. zg
My Acid Trip with Groucho
Sucker said:
The first inductees were voted upon at the first "blackjack ball", where only seven or eight people were invited; by GUESS WHO!!!
And if you think that I believe that there were strings attached when Nixon decided to make Ford president, you're right!!
My thoughts on the BJ hall of "fame":
Anonymity is one of the most important traits of a pro BJ player. The fact that someone's in the hall of fame is proof that he doesn't belong there!
Well ... the winners so far:
* Al Francesco, 2002, one of the founders of the concept of blackjack teams.
* Peter Griffin, 2002, mathematician, theoretical pioneer and author of The Theory of Blackjack
* Arnold Snyder, 2002, former professional player, author and editor of Blackjack Forum
* Edward O. Thorp, 2002, author of the 1960s classic Beat the Dealer
* Ken Uston, 2002, professional player and author who popularized the concept of team play, often playing in disguise and successfully suing the Atlantic City casinos for the rights of card counters
* Stanford Wong, 2002, author and popularizer of the strategy known as "Wonging"
* Tommy Hyland, 2002, manager of one of the longest-running blackjack teams
* Max Rubin, 2004, known for media reporting about gambling events, and optimizing casino comps
* Keith Taft, 2004, inventor who manufactured hidden computerized devices to aid with play
* Julian Braun, 2005, pioneering author who used computers to analyze blackjack statistics
* Lawrence Revere, 2005, author of Playing Blackjack as a Business and blackjack teacher
* James Grosjean, 2006, computer analyst and professional player, author of the classic Beyond Counting, who successfully sued casinos and the Griffin Agency
* John Chang, 2007, former MIT team manager and basis for the Mickey Rosa character in the movie 21
* Roger Baldwin, Wilbert Cantey, Herbert Maisel and James McDermott, (2008), collectively known as "The Four Horsemen of Aberdeen", who, while serving in the U.S. Army in the fifties, discovered and published in the Journal of the American Statistical Association the first accurate basic strategy for Blackjack, using only desk calculators.
That's a pretty distinguished list of players. Mind you, things are a little different now. I just got that list off the Wiki. You probably couldn't have done that in 2002. Shucks, I just put Stanford Wong's name in the Wiki, and found his birth date, identity, and other trivia.
:shrug:
Times change.
* Al Francesco, 2002, one of the founders of the concept of blackjack teams.
* Peter Griffin, 2002, mathematician, theoretical pioneer and author of The Theory of Blackjack
* Arnold Snyder, 2002, former professional player, author and editor of Blackjack Forum
* Edward O. Thorp, 2002, author of the 1960s classic Beat the Dealer
* Ken Uston, 2002, professional player and author who popularized the concept of team play, often playing in disguise and successfully suing the Atlantic City casinos for the rights of card counters
* Stanford Wong, 2002, author and popularizer of the strategy known as "Wonging"
* Tommy Hyland, 2002, manager of one of the longest-running blackjack teams
* Max Rubin, 2004, known for media reporting about gambling events, and optimizing casino comps
* Keith Taft, 2004, inventor who manufactured hidden computerized devices to aid with play
* Julian Braun, 2005, pioneering author who used computers to analyze blackjack statistics
* Lawrence Revere, 2005, author of Playing Blackjack as a Business and blackjack teacher
* James Grosjean, 2006, computer analyst and professional player, author of the classic Beyond Counting, who successfully sued casinos and the Griffin Agency
* John Chang, 2007, former MIT team manager and basis for the Mickey Rosa character in the movie 21
* Roger Baldwin, Wilbert Cantey, Herbert Maisel and James McDermott, (2008), collectively known as "The Four Horsemen of Aberdeen", who, while serving in the U.S. Army in the fifties, discovered and published in the Journal of the American Statistical Association the first accurate basic strategy for Blackjack, using only desk calculators.
That's a pretty distinguished list of players. Mind you, things are a little different now. I just got that list off the Wiki. You probably couldn't have done that in 2002. Shucks, I just put Stanford Wong's name in the Wiki, and found his birth date, identity, and other trivia.
:shrug:
Times change.
