MY First Counting Trip

[eps6724]

O.K., I've enjoyed reading about other's first counting trip, and maybe I'm the only one, but here's mine from last night.

First time to enter a casino counting. I've been reading and practicing and following some very interesting threads on this site for almost a year now, so I felt I was ready. And excited. So, armed with my charm, wit, confidence in my game and winning, wining smile, I proceded to enter into the foray.

I was determined to do it right, so I spent my first hour wandering and watching. There was everything here as far as 'low tables' go-from $5.00 6 and 8 decks, to $10.00 4 decks, even $15.00 doubles! (No mid-shoe entry on the DD's, though). I didn't walk into the high-stakes room, but now out of curiosity I wish I had! Some were hand-shuffled, some were macine shuffled. None were csm. Some had side bets, some not, a couple had surrender. All were S17, DAS, split to 4 hnds, and all the dealers I watched were cutting less than a deck off the back, most around 3/4. (I think the DD was closer to 1/2!)

So, I was ready. Using an unbalanced count (thanks, Mr. Rezney for your help understanding it better!) I played through 3 shoes, all of which had counts that justified staying. Then I tried my hand at wonging 3 different times when the count went positive. At each table I was one of only 2-3 players. I'm VERY pleased to say that no only was I able to EASILY keep the count, and there was only one hand that I didn't play BS (other than when I deviated due to count) and all the while carrying on casual conversations around me.

AND I LOST MY SHIRT!!!!!!!:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Guess what? In my haste to play the 'perfect game', I took everything into consideration except one-playing with a big enough bankroll! Yep, I SHOULD have been fine, and there were a NUMBER of opportunities both in full shoe play and wonging that I should have been laying out max bet after max bet, but I just didn't have it. Lesson learned! I have a couple of more nights in the area, and I plan to go back tonight-with only 3 dollars for hot dogs, and spend my time watching and learning some more. The REST of my money I'm saving until I have a PROPER BANKROLL!

The funniest thing that happened? I'm 800 miles from home, and the cashier recognizes me from a school program I did for her daughter's school 4 years ago!

Some lessons I guess we have to buy, one way or another!

-EPS

 

[Mimosine]

no reason to fret - though losing like that sucks and most of us have been there. this last weekend i had one of my biggest winning sessions at one joint, and by far my biggest losing session at a second joint. and the second place i played had a better game, with lots of + counts, that i could just not win. it happens. but if you are confindent in your ability, and are playing perfectly, then get back up and start playing again. in time things will go in your favor.

 

[eps6724]

Thanks, I inyend to. Just that the NEXT time I plan to be-if not a 'well-heeled shooter', at least a properly bankrolled one!

-EPS

 

[EasyRhino]

If you feel like spilling it, what was your bet spread, what is your bankroll, and how much did you bring with you into the casino?

 

[eps6724]

Let's just say embarassing, embarassing, and embarassing! (O.K., I only had $250.00 with me-I know, I know!) I was able to get up to 7 units a couple of times even though there were at least 9 times I should have been at maximum bet. (I practice different decks, different rules, but all with a 1-10 spread). Unfortunately, I just didn't have the cash to keep putting out bets! At one time I was down to about 13 units, came back up to starting, then lost it all.

The really sick part is that with all of the practicing I've done on computer, I have lost upwards to 133 units before bouncing back-so I KNEW it could happen, so this wasn't a shock. Just upset that I didn't wait until I had enough to play properly with a proper spread and bankroll.

I left my wallet back at our camp so as not to run the risk of pulling out credit cards to bounce back. I think I'll just keep practicing and saving up for a couple of months!

Oh, and before I forget-reguardless of my mistakes, I did want to express my appreciation for the folks at this site. I've learned a lot! And now I've learned even more!
-EPS

 

[MEDITANK]

This past weekend at my fav stomping grounds, mind you, out of around 20 trips, I have only walked out of their front doors as a loser once and that was $48. I've taken these guys for around 1200 so far. Well, last weekend, I hit some major neg variance. Lost a $60 DD on an 11 vs a 5, got an A. I nearly punched that dealer. Was down $150 at that point, lost another $90 on some very bad shoes---RC went to +17 but the shoe ended at +14 after one deck was played. So basically speaking, the 10's called in sick that shoe. I was expecting this anyway since I believe the ASM this shop uses front loads the highs and the lows at opposite ends of the shoe, so when the cut is done, the highs all disappear. But, then the next time that shoe is up(they alternate 2 shoes), I know the 10's will be screaming out of the gate, so I bet that shoe as a high RC deck to begin with. A great majority of the time, it works beautifully. So I went into attack mode, fought back and won back all of that $240 I was down in 2 hours, but I had to go the ATM machine to do it. Sometimes you are only a few hands away, other times, you just add to the losses. That is the nature of this game. No amount of counting can erase the issues of negative variance, although counting can inform you on how to play hands better thereby reducing your losses. My two cents.

Let's just say embarassing, embarassing, and embarassing! (O.K., I only had $250.00 with me-I know, I know!) I was able to get up to 7 units a couple of times even though there were at least 9 times I should have been at maximum bet. (I practice different decks, different rules, but all with a 1-10 spread). Unfortunately, I just didn't have the cash to keep putting out bets! At one time I was down to about 13 units, came back up to starting, then lost it all.

The really sick part is that with all of the practicing I've done on computer, I have lost upwards to 133 units before bouncing back-so I KNEW it could happen, so this wasn't a shock. Just upset that I didn't wait until I had enough to play properly with a proper spread and bankroll.

I left my wallet back at our camp so as not to run the risk of pulling out credit cards to bounce back. I think I'll just keep practicing and saving up for a couple of months!

Oh, and before I forget-reguardless of my mistakes, I did want to express my appreciation for the folks at this site. I've learned a lot! And now I've learned even more!
-EPS

 

[Brock Windsor]

Bad Beats

Yeah sounds just like the poker circuit, everyone has bad beat stories. Though I've had some big losses counting and am in fact negative over the last two months..playing only with about a .5% advantage. My worst night, not in terms of money but in terms of variance came hole carding. I could see at least 90% of hole cards off this guy and was playing it almost by the book (wouldn't hit 17+). After 4 hours I was still down 6 units playing with a 9% advantage almost the entire time. That said the guy was just crushing all the other players much worse, it seemed like he could never bust a stiff. Between him pulling out pat after pat and me splitting 10's and waving small stiffs players were avoiding that table like the plague...which made it worse cuz the dealer had some mental tick that caused him to only expose his hole card to third base when a player sat on first base. For what it's worth, I'd say dig into the bank machine again and be prepared to surrender another $250 but be an obvious counter. Wong out any count < TC1, table hop, and use a smaller spread. It likely won't get you noticed at small stakes tables and it will greatly increase your confidence to grind back a few dollars you have lost without risking much more. It is a very rewarding feeling to win a bet because you are intelligent rather than winning 5 bets because you are lucky.
BW

 

[golfnut101]

hold on their !!!

. I was expecting this anyway since I believe the ASM this shop uses front loads the highs and the lows at opposite ends of the shoe, so when the cut is done, the highs all disappear. But, then the next time that shoe is up(they alternate 2 shoes), I know the 10's will be screaming out of the gate, so I bet that shoe as a high RC deck to begin with. A great majority of the time, it works beautifully. .

My apologies to eps, as I know this is off topic, but, are you implying their is a way to play ASM's Meditank ? How did you know they 'frontload' ? Very interesting.

 

[eps6724]

My apologies to eps, as I know this is off topic, but, are you implying their is a way to play ASM's Meditank ? How did you know they 'frontload' ? Very interesting.

No apology necessary. Sounds like more information I can learn fromt!

Also, thanks to the replies. The one thing that strikes me, that I wouldn't have thought a year ago-is that it's not luck at all. I made some bad choices that I knew were wrong in respect to bet-sizing, bankroll etc., so no sense blaming luck, cards, or anything else. I was just too excited to try what I learned. (I'm anxious to learn more advanced techniques, as well, but I'm going to get this down pat, first).

Went over tonight just to watch. Gotta say, I see why casino's are staying in business! It was all I could do not to yell "NO!" when the guy at the DD table layed down a huge bet when the count had absolutely tanked. (I was standing behind him for almost 25 minutes watching and counting). He lost, whipped out a few more hundred, and kept at it. And with no rhyme or reason. Watched a good 6-8 shoes, and he grabbed his wallet after about every one! At one point, with the running count somewhere around -18, he doubled a 7 against a dealer 2 up. Even the pit boss asked him if he was nuts! (He lost that hand, as well).

Oh well, I am more convinced now than ever there is a right way and a wrong way. Next month, I go again!
-EPS

 

[gpucci]

Don't even worry about messing up on the first go-around. Sometimes when I take the trip to Reno I don't win either. This after counting for years. While counting we can only say that "this amount of high/low cards are 'about' left". We still have to rely on luck somewhat. I have gone into a good count situation and lost 5-7 hands in a row while the count was getting better!! This is after I had doubled my bet as well because of it being over 10.

Just keep practicing, and sooner or later it will come as natural to you. When I play at the local indian casino here w/ the CSMs I still find myself counting although I don't think it does any good. (although I think it does something to a point when playing BS rules because of the cards sticking in "chunks").

Anyhow my point I was trying to make is just keep it up. Sooner or later you will see a good set of cards and find you up $1000 :grin:

I am glad to see it has come so easily for you. Personally it took quite a few trips for me to become comfortable, and I am a huge math guy that is almost "rainman" like when it coms to adding figures. o you got a gift! Don't let one event spoil it! Game on!

 

[GeorgeD]

Don't even worry about messing up on the first go-around. Sometimes when I take the trip to Reno I don't win either. This after counting for years. While counting we can only say that "this amount of high/low cards are 'about' left". We still have to rely on luck somewhat. I have gone into a good count situation and lost 5-7 hands in a row while the count was getting better!! This is after I had doubled my bet as well because of it being over 10. !

You were doing the right thing, but keep in mind that if the count is still going up, the high cards aren't coming out, so the good hands won't come. When the count is going DOWN is when you should win. Now if only we could predict that!

 

[MEDITANK]

You were doing the right thing, but keep in mind that if the count is still going up, the high cards aren't coming out, so the good hands won't come. When the count is going DOWN is when you should win. Now if only we could predict that!

Exactly! Great point and so true because sometimes the 10's never come out or when they finally do, it is time for a reshuffle.

 

[Sonny]

When the count is going DOWN is when you should win. Now if only we could predict that!

We can, but it takes a lot more effort.

-Sonny-

 

[Automatic Monkey]

You were doing the right thing, but keep in mind that if the count is still going up, the high cards aren't coming out, so the good hands won't come. When the count is going DOWN is when you should win. Now if only we could predict that!

It's one of the reasons why Wonging out is such a cool way to play. You are either waiting for a positive EV hand, or you just had a few and you're walking away. So every time you walk away from a bad count, statistically it will be with more money than you sat down with.

 

[Xenophon]

It's one of the reasons why Wonging out is such a cool way to play. You are either waiting for a positive EV hand, or you just had a few and you're walking away. So every time you walk away from a bad count, statistically it will be with more money than you sat down with.

I've thought of this before too, this is the first time I've seen it mentioned.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I've thought of this before too, this is the first time I've seen it mentioned.

The benefit is mostly psychological, because on the other hand when the count goes high and you start spreading, you've just gotten done playing a bunch of bad negative EV hands. But you don't feel so bad because you're getting your revenge now. There are some days on Wongout missions where it feels like you are watching shuffles and walking away from bad counts all the time, but it's a lot less frustrating when you know you've been playing with an advantage anyway.

 

[EasyRhino]

And then there's also the occassional time wonging when It's a Trap!!, and you go in at a high count, the count climbs even higher, and then the shuffle comes before the big cards come out.

 

[Mimosine]

And then there's also the occassional time wonging when It's a Trap!!, and you go in at a high count, the count climbs even higher, and then the shuffle comes before the big cards come out.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[MEDITANK]

And then there's also the occassional time wonging when It's a Trap!!, and you go in at a high count, the count climbs even higher, and then the shuffle comes before the big cards come out.

Argh! Don't remind me. Happens more than you think. This illustrates more and more the importance of pen. The larger the pen, the less hiding places for all of these 10's to hide. They can't all fit behind plastic forever.

 

[gpucci]

You were doing the right thing, but keep in mind that if the count is still going up, the high cards aren't coming out, so the good hands won't come. When the count is going DOWN is when you should win. Now if only we could predict that!

I hear ya. I use hi-lo. basically it's the easiest thing for me (I tend to get distracted so anything other than the basics might screw me up) :grin:


I was kind of exaggerating on that point hehe. But yah the count was ranging from +5 to +10 and I was the only one to get the 12-16s.. It was horrible. My hands were keeping the count up there it seemed while everyone else won. It was a 2 deck at Circus Circus Reno.