I have been working hard trying to learn the blackjack strategies. I bought hoyle casino as practice, I turn on the count, not sure what system it uses but it seems to be accurate. I am following basic strategy and getting my butt kicked. I played a 3 hour session betting how I would bet in real life ($5-$25) and I made at most $100 before falling -$50 and spending 1.5 hours trying to get back even and only got even after using hunches by standing on 15 against a dealer 8 and betting 10x from table min. I even tried using hi opt with modified strategy tables based which seemed to do no good. The software said that I made more money when the count was even/negative than positive. What's going on???
Need Advice/Help
- Thread starter wbav
- Start date
The misconception is just because you are playing BS and card counting doesn't mean you will win. By counting cards, you have in average about 1.1% advantage. This sounds like that with average $100 betting getting 100 hands per hour, you will earn 1.1% x $100 = $110/hour all the time.... but in reality you will also lose money because of standard deviation. If you are using hi-opt is probably playing SD, DD games, but if you are playing shoe games, $5-$25 is only 1-5 spread, which is very weak, by my experience, you should bet at least 1 - 15 (ideal would be 1 - 25 if you can get away with the heat) betting ramp with wonging out to beat the game.
Also depending on the rules and any kind of counting errors, your advantage can drop significantly. If you haven't checked out this thread, take a visit at
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=9660
Also depending on the rules and any kind of counting errors, your advantage can drop significantly. If you haven't checked out this thread, take a visit at
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=9660
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I was using the count in the software, I tracked it for about 10 min it seemed to be accurate. Not a hi-opt count, but it seemed to be a balanced level 2 count. I played for a grueling 3 hours about a hand every 45 secs, is that enough games to be on the expected value? The BJ books I read said that they could make significant money in 30 minutes. Either they are lying or there is some critical piece of info I am missing. I am trying to keep my bets within 1x-4x of table mins for now because that is all my real bankroll can take, plus I hear casinos get edgy when I start jumping up my bets.
I've played with 6 decks in my 3 hour session. I thought it my be the decks, so I reduced it to 2 last night. Again, progress was erratic, betting at $15 table min I lost $200 in 30 minutes. I have found that the true count is extremely erratic in 2 deck games, placing my bet one hand was +6, when it came time to play it was-2. How do I handle this?
Here are the rules I use (6 deck and 2 deck):
Deck penetration is 80%
insurance 2/1
double after split
BJ 3/2
split all pairs (10's and faces being weird, splitting 10's is a bad idea most of the time)
I've played with 6 decks in my 3 hour session. I thought it my be the decks, so I reduced it to 2 last night. Again, progress was erratic, betting at $15 table min I lost $200 in 30 minutes. I have found that the true count is extremely erratic in 2 deck games, placing my bet one hand was +6, when it came time to play it was-2. How do I handle this?
Here are the rules I use (6 deck and 2 deck):
Deck penetration is 80%
insurance 2/1
double after split
BJ 3/2
split all pairs (10's and faces being weird, splitting 10's is a bad idea most of the time)
Sonny
Well-Known Member
A good card counter playing a decent game should be pretty close to EV by 400 hours of play. You've got a long way to go. Also, try to get your time to around 18-20 seconds per round. With fast enough software it should be no problem.wbav said:
Probably both. What book was it?wbav said:
That's nothing. Swings of $450-$900 per hour are common at that betting level. It's all part of the game. You have to be prepared for the variance and have a big enough bankroll to get through it. This article is a good start:wbav said:
http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/Blackjack_Basic_Strategy_Betting_And_Risk.htm
That's a good thing! You reached a high count then the high cards came out. That's how you make money in this game. The count jumps around a lot in pitch games because the TC divisor is smaller than shoe games. That volatility is part of the reason they are fun to play. When the count suddenly changes like that, just play according to the current count. If the count suddenly drops to -2 then keep playing and betting at that level.wbav said:
-Sonny-
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That is half true. I once made 160 units in about 15 minutes. :grin: But I also lost around 100 units at 12 minutes in high TC +6 with 4 splits and 2 double downs playing two hands :cry:. I think your book left out the bad part :whip:.wbav said:
That is not erratic, actually it is very accurate. In shoe games, more than half of the time the high cards takes forever to come out even at high TC. That's why 8 decks games are so bad. They should only allow 1 to 4 decks getting rid of 6 and 8 decks... I know I am dreaming. If they come out with 10 deck games, then its time for all players to quit BJ once and for all.
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jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
bjtocki,
I may be mistaken, but "I think" the difference in the HA. between a 8D game and a infinite deck game, are only a few hundreths of a percent.
ihate17
Well-Known Member
30 minutes and spread
I think if you look deeper into your book you will find that not only is it possible to make a lot of money in 30 minutes but just about as possible to lose a lot of money in 30 minutes also. As others here have mentioned, you get an edge counting but it is a small edge in a game with high variance. Variance levels off after hundreds of hours but in 30 minutes time the perfect cardcounter can lose a ton and the worst player in the world can win a ton. 30 minutes means nothing in your blackjack life.
You also mentioned that you are simulating a 1-5 spread in both DD and 6D games. A 1-5 spread in a 6D game is a very weak spread. My suggestion to someone whose bankroll can only afford that $5-$25 spread is to wong in to shoe games at +2 TC and spread from there.
ihate17
wbav said:
I think if you look deeper into your book you will find that not only is it possible to make a lot of money in 30 minutes but just about as possible to lose a lot of money in 30 minutes also. As others here have mentioned, you get an edge counting but it is a small edge in a game with high variance. Variance levels off after hundreds of hours but in 30 minutes time the perfect cardcounter can lose a ton and the worst player in the world can win a ton. 30 minutes means nothing in your blackjack life.
You also mentioned that you are simulating a 1-5 spread in both DD and 6D games. A 1-5 spread in a 6D game is a very weak spread. My suggestion to someone whose bankroll can only afford that $5-$25 spread is to wong in to shoe games at +2 TC and spread from there.
ihate17
MoneyPlays
Well-Known Member
I play BJ on Hoyle also. The count it uses is hi-lo, not a level 2 count. It does show you how many aces are left in the deck, though. I won $1200 on it in about an hour last night, 6 deck same rules as you except I don't set it at the full 80% penetration, I set mine at about 70-75%, which is probably a little more realistic. I was spreading from $10-$120, but a few times I bet $200 just for kicks.wbav said:
When your count is +6 when you place your bet and -2 after the hand is dealt, the cards had been shuffled on you. No it wasn't heat, but that would be kind of cool if they incorporated that into the game.
Watch for the cut card at the top right of the screen. The count is so high right before the shuffle because there are so few cards left, especially since you have it on 80% pen. So if you see the cut card you're starting back at 0, and the count you see is for the first hand of the new deck/shoe.You really didn't lose as much money as you could have, keep playing and you'll see. Worlds Greatest BJ Book is a solid book, though a little dated. Yes, you CAN make significant money in 30 minutes, but that doesn't mean you WILL every time. As stated by Flash, Blackbelt in Blackjack is excellent. Pay close attention to the chapter that explains standard deviation and bankroll fluctuation, it's an eye opener. I would also recommend Blackjack Bluebook II by Fred Renzey. Very simple and to the point, and it'll cure you of any "voodoo" strategy.
Good luck and save your money so you can play the proper bet spreads, your bankroll depends on it.
MoneyPlays
Well-Known Member
No I had never tried the online option on the game. I just tried and it said something about the link being broken. Probably need to get some kind of update. The version of Hoyle Casino I have is several years old.wbav said:
Just keep playing and eventually you'll swing to the positive side.