new career help

#1
I have owned a successful contracting business for the last 12 years, but
the changing economic landscape is forcing a change.

My thoughts: Ive been a pretty hardcore rec. gambler and have been pretty
happy with my results. No counting up till now using martingale system.
No longer willing to take those chances. Planning on 5k bankroll playing on
$15 table. I would like to see $400-500 per session whether it takes 1 hour
or 8. Do plan on counting (once comfortable w/ it) Any thoughts? Please
share. Thanks a bunch to all you with the experience.

Is this realistic?
 

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#4
You can call the National Council on Problem Gambling at 1-800-522-4700.

I apologize if that sounds nasty. But, becoming a pro-gambler from a Martingale player is a very long path.
 

blackriver

Well-Known Member
#7
QFIT said:
You can call the National Council on Problem Gambling at 1-800-522-4700.

I apologize if that sounds nasty. But, becoming a pro-gambler from a Martingale player is a very long path.
exactly. You be at least 50x more likely to succeed if you said you'd never played before
 

btklc

New Member
#8
I dont get the correlation between being a former (FORMER) Martingale player and gambling addiction hotline.

And why would I have better luck if Ive never played before?
 

Craps Master

Well-Known Member
#9
btklc said:
I have owned a successful contracting business for the last 12 years, but
the changing economic landscape is forcing a change.

My thoughts: Ive been a pretty hardcore rec. gambler and have been pretty
happy with my results. No counting up till now using martingale system.
No longer willing to take those chances. Planning on 5k bankroll playing on
$15 table. I would like to see $400-500 per session whether it takes 1 hour
or 8. Do plan on counting (once comfortable w/ it) Any thoughts? Please
share. Thanks a bunch to all you with the experience.

Is this realistic?
btklc said:
I dont get the correlation between being a former (FORMER) Martingale player and gambling addiction hotline.

And why would I have better luck if Ive never played before?
You should read a book on card counting. Try Blackbelt in Blackjack or Knock-Out Blackjack. Come back with questions after you've finished.
 

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
#10
btklc said:
I have owned a successful contracting business for the last 12 years, but
the changing economic landscape is forcing a change.

My thoughts: Ive been a pretty hardcore rec. gambler and have been pretty
happy with my results. No counting up till now using martingale system.
No longer willing to take those chances. Planning on 5k bankroll playing on
$15 table. I would like to see $400-500 per session whether it takes 1 hour
or 8. Do plan on counting (once comfortable w/ it) Any thoughts? Please
share. Thanks a bunch to all you with the experience.

Is this realistic?
No, it is very unrealistic.

For starters to grow their bankroll, I recommend $7500 for their initial bankroll and they need to keep in mind for $7500 BR to work, the strict guideline is as the following:

This is for half Kelly bet, that means your max bet is $75 if your advantage is 2% and BR is $7500. For your advantage to be 2%, you need to find a good game and spread 15 to 1 (assuming playing shoe game). Since your max bet is $75, you have to find a $5 minimal table. Keep in mind that you have to maintain 2% advantage for the scenario to work, so you need to have your max bet out when TC reaches +4 or +5. This assumes you have to play all hands.

If you play in the area that Wonging is possible, you can modify the above scenario a little bit. The principle is the same. Half Kelly bet is $75 for 2% advantage and $7500 BR. (Half Kelly bet is $50 for 2% advantage and $5000 bankroll. This is for people with smaller initial BR. But once again, you need a sizable initial BR.) To achieve 2% advantage, you might Wong in when TC is +1 and Wong out when TC is -1. Bet $25 when TC is -1, 0 or +1. Bet $50 when TC is +2 or +3. Bet $75 when TC is +4 or higher. Keep in mind you need 2% advantage, so you have to adjust bet size according the actual penetration and game rules.

Mathematics behind this half Kelly bet:

1/2 x $7500 x 2% = $75 (This will be your max bet.)

Say you make progress that your BR grows to $12000 and you find a good double deck game and have 2.5% advantage. Your Half Kelly Bet is

1/2 x $12000 x 2.5% = $150

Your max bet is $150. Although it is a kind of stretch to achieve 2.5% advantage by spreading 6 to 1 on DD, if you have a lot of index plays, you may now play at $25 minimal table and spread $25 to $150. To be on safe side, you might consider 8 to 1 spread. So your minimal bet is about $20 when TC is negative or 0.

Once you grow your BR to six figures, you might switch to Quarter Kelly Bet to greatly reduce your Risk of Ruin. You might want to reduce your spread or have occasional misplays to deflect heat. By doing so, your advantage is reduced, say to 1%. Your max bet is

1/4 x $100000 x 1% = $250

The new spread is $25 to $250 at $25 minimal shoe game. You will be comfortable in playing this to generate consistent income and have longevity in doing so. This is your end-of-game goal.

(How much income you generate you may ask? This is the rough estimate. The average bet is 1.8 x $25 = $45. Assume your play 100 hands per hour, your income per hour is

$45 x 100 x 1% = $45

When you see a lazy pit boss, you might play optimally and have that 2% advantage:

$45 x 100 x 2% = $90

Not to bad to earn $45 or $90 per hour.)
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#11

You cannot earn anywhere remotely near what you are looking for with such a miniscule bankroll.

A 15 dollar table is best be attacked with a bankroll of > $20,000+

That is enough cash to keep your "Risk of Ruin" (chances of going "belly up") fairly low;

with earning of perhaps $40+ per hour.

You will be winning about 70% of your sessions.

You need to study and practice for months before actually risking your money.

I suggest "Blackbelt in Blackjack."
 
#12
BJgenius007 said:
No, it is very unrealistic.

For starters to grow their bankroll, I recommend $7500 for their initial bankroll and they need to keep in mind for $7500 BR to work, the strict guideline is as the following:

This is for half Kelly bet, that means your max bet is $75 if your advantage is 2% and BR is $7500. For your advantage to be 2%, you need to find a good game and spread 15 to 1 (assuming playing shoe game). Since your max bet is $75, you have to find a $5 minimal table. Keep in mind that you have to maintain 2% advantage for the scenario to work, so you need to have your max bet out when TC reaches +4 or +5. This assumes you have to play all hands.
What should be initial buy-in be at the table?

Thanks in advance.
 

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
#13
Requiem said:
What should be initial buy-in be at the table?

Thanks in advance.
To fully cover your max bet $75, your initial buy-in should be greater than $75. I recommend $100 or $200.

You only need to cover one hand of max bet because the dealer will wait for you if you signal to double or split but don't have enough chips.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#14

Buy In for 20 times the table minimum.

You can always buy-in "as needed" by going into your pocket.

It creates the correct image by painfully pulling out one Benjamin at a time.

This is basic "camouflage"

Buying in for large amounts tells the pit that you have
enough money to play seriously and maybe even win.

;)
 

blackriver

Well-Known Member
#15
BJgenius007 said:
No, it is very unrealistic.

For starters to grow their bankroll, I recommend $7500 for their initial bankroll and they need to keep in mind for $7500 BR to work, the strict guideline is as the following:

This is for half Kelly bet, that means your max bet is $75 if your advantage is 2% and BR is $7500. For your advantage to be 2%, you need to find a good game and spread 15 to 1 (assuming playing shoe game). Since your max bet is $75, you have to find a $5 minimal table. Keep in mind that you have to maintain 2% advantage for the scenario to work, so you need to have your max bet out when TC reaches +4 or +5. This assumes you have to play all hands.

If you play in the area that Wonging is possible, you can modify the above scenario a little bit. The principle is the same. Half Kelly bet is $75 for 2% advantage and $7500 BR. (Half Kelly bet is $50 for 2% advantage and $5000 bankroll. This is for people with smaller initial BR. But once again, you need a sizable initial BR.) To achieve 2% advantage, you might Wong in when TC is +1 and Wong out when TC is -1. Bet $25 when TC is -1, 0 or +1. Bet $50 when TC is +2 or +3. Bet $75 when TC is +4 or higher. Keep in mind you need 2% advantage, so you have to adjust bet size according the actual penetration and game rules.

Mathematics behind this half Kelly bet:

1/2 x $7500 x 2% = $75 (This will be your max bet.)

Say you make progress that your BR grows to $12000 and you find a good double deck game and have 2.5% advantage. Your Half Kelly Bet is

1/2 x $12000 x 2.5% = $150

Your max bet is $150. Although it is a kind of stretch to achieve 2.5% advantage by spreading 6 to 1 on DD, if you have a lot of index plays, you may now play at $25 minimal table and spread $25 to $150. To be on safe side, you might consider 8 to 1 spread. So your minimal bet is about $20 when TC is negative or 0.

Once you grow your BR to six figures, you might switch to Quarter Kelly Bet to greatly reduce your Risk of Ruin. You might want to reduce your spread or have occasional misplays to deflect heat. By doing so, your advantage is reduced, say to 1%. Your max bet is

1/4 x $100000 x 1% = $250

The new spread is $25 to $250 at $25 minimal shoe game. You will be comfortable in playing this to generate consistent income and have longevity in doing so. This is your end-of-game goal.

(How much income you generate you may ask? This is the rough estimate. The average bet is 1.8 x $25 = $45. Assume your play 100 hands per hour, your income per hour is

$45 x 100 x 1% = $45

When you see a lazy pit boss, you might play optimally and have that 2% advantage:

$45 x 100 x 2% = $90

Not to bad to earn $45 or $90 per hour.)
lol
 

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
#16
FLASH1296 said:

...with earning of perhaps $40+ per hour...


Flash is exactly right.

The thing is...many jobs offer competitive wages, particularly when one consider health coverage, social security, etc.

And the standard deviation in those jobs is practically 0.

Then again, one has to put up with bosses who are, well, ... :eek:
 

Nynefingers

Well-Known Member
#17
Dear god, please do not listen to BJGenious on this. That said, you need more money, and you aren't going to be ready to do this overnight. If you're looking for a change or career, this isn't a good option for you. If you're looking for something to supplement another income, it might be OK, but you're not anywhere close to being there right now. But you've come here and you've asked questions and you've said you're done with martingaling. If you're truly willing to put that behind you and trust the math, you could learn to be a winning player, but even so, you'll need at least $15-20k to play shoe games with a $15 minimum.
 

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
#18
Nynefingers said:
Dear god, please do not listen to BJGenious on this. That said, you need more money, and you aren't going to be ready to do this overnight. If you're looking for a change or career, this isn't a good option for you. If you're looking for something to supplement another income, it might be OK, but you're not anywhere close to being there right now. But you've come here and you've asked questions and you've said you're done with martingaling. If you're truly willing to put that behind you and trust the math, you could learn to be a winning player, but even so, you'll need at least $15-20k to play shoe games with a $15 minimum.
Did I say he can do it in overnight? I just plot a career path for anyone who wants an AP career. Starting from playing $5 shoe game spreading $5 to $75 correlated to True Count, which implies he needs to learn counting. I recommend Hi Lo counting system for new AP.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#19

The last thing that I would consider doing is recommending Hi-Lo
A newbie with an inadequate bankroll, lacking polished skills, is
facing an "uphill battle" and needs a Level Two count e.g. ZEN

 
#20
FLASH1296 said:

The last thing that I would consider doing is recommending Hi-Lo
A newbie with an inadequate bankroll, lacking polished skills, is
facing an "uphill battle" and needs a Level Two count e.g. ZEN

I agree with Flash. A new player should practice until proficient. Having a small BR you need all the advantage you can get. By requiring more skills you have a longer time to build a BR. It will be harder to switch to level 2 after learning a level 1 than just starting with level 2. If you can add and subtract 1 and 2 easily you are ready for a level 2 system. The counting is easy. It is the conversions to TC and deck estimations that take some practice. If you suck at division there is no way around it for betting but playing decisions can be made by multiplying the index for the play by the number of remaining decks to be played and comparing it to the RC.
 
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