Noob Experience.

[RingyDingy]

Hi Everyone,

I thought id like to share with you the ongoing experience of a noob.

And before I do I have to say some inspiring stories and a wealth of information here and I thank you all!

Here goes, and please feel free to laugh, because I know I regularly laugh at what im doing too, wow I say to myself, what on earth am I doing.

Day 1
Watch the movie 21, go me!
As someone who is pretty good at math and complex math, thinks that I can give it a go, im not doing this for the money, as I have a job that pays really well, but I just want to be able to “beat the house”, nothing better than that thrill.

Day2-5
Sit at home and flipped cards till my eyeballs flew out, starting with a basic Hi-Lo
Read a stack of different stuff, basically deciding to start with Hi-Lo and mastering basic strategy

Day 6-9
Played a lot with some of the computer versions, trying to master BS and Hi-LO, not doing too bad.

Day 10
Take the plunge, and head to my local casino (8decks, 2 deck pen, hit on Soft 17) Min tables are 10bucks
Most tables are CSM machines, the brand “One Two Six” or there abouts, these things give me the creeps, and remind me of stealth bombers or some such.

Anyways basically spend the first few hours just observing, taking it all in, trying counts, trying to follow BS.
In essence, I totally shat myself, I lost the count god knows how many times, and couldn’t even follow BS on a few occaisions, I know its different just as an observer, but was a good reality check for me.
Dropped 50 bucks on the roulette wheel, as my BJ skills and confidence were shattered.

Day 11.
A fresh day and a fresh start, so this time having done a couple of hours of good counting and BS at home I hit them again.
My starting bankroll is $500.
Found a great table with a very chatty dealer, and LOTS of other players, this really slowed it down to a nice level for me, and I thought I did really well, however, the dealer was pulling all sorts of bullshit hands, 21’s a plenty.
I was only minimum betting, but hardly won a hand. Was down $200 (min 10 table) when I decided to cut and run. Went and got some food and drink, and then sat down for another try. Lost another $100, pulled the plug, went home and thought long and hard.
Was I not counting right?, what was the story?, maybe I should have been wonging instead of sitting and playing. Maybe this is the cost of learning….
Talked for ages with a totally hot chick and got her number, so maybe it wasn’t wasted after all.

Day 12
Ok after the day that was yesterday I needed something different to happen, my luck needed to change.
Again walked around and watched for about 45 mins, then got into a table with the TC at +3 (according to noob counts)
And before you know it I was +200, then a dealer change and along came what I can only describe as a human robot, mr no personality speed dealer, no chat nothing.

So I cut and ran, played the slots for 5 minutes, watched some roulette, and sat at the sports bar for 10 mins with some crappy bets, all part of the average guy disguise.
So im now down $100.

Rang the hot chick, she blew me off faster than I could blink.

Today is Day 13 and I think im not going to go in today, practise at home and try work on my skills.


That’s it for now!

 

[standard toaster]

Hi Everyone,

I thought id like to share with you the ongoing experience of a noob.

And before I do I have to say some inspiring stories and a wealth of information here and I thank you all!

Here goes, and please feel free to laugh, because I know I regularly laugh at what im doing too, wow I say to myself, what on earth am I doing.

Day 1
Watch the movie 21, go me!
As someone who is pretty good at math and complex math, thinks that I can give it a go, im not doing this for the money, as I have a job that pays really well, but I just want to be able to “beat the house”, nothing better than that thrill.

Day2-5
Sit at home and flipped cards till my eyeballs flew out, starting with a basic Hi-Lo
Read a stack of different stuff, basically deciding to start with Hi-Lo and mastering basic strategy

Day 6-9
Played a lot with some of the computer versions, trying to master BS and Hi-LO, not doing too bad.

Day 10
Take the plunge, and head to my local casino (8decks, 2 deck pen, hit on Soft 17) Min tables are 10bucks
Most tables are CSM machines, the brand “One Two Six” or there abouts, these things give me the creeps, and remind me of stealth bombers or some such.

Anyways basically spend the first few hours just observing, taking it all in, trying counts, trying to follow BS.
In essence, I totally shat myself, I lost the count god knows how many times, and couldn’t even follow BS on a few occaisions, I know its different just as an observer, but was a good reality check for me.
Dropped 50 bucks on the roulette wheel, as my BJ skills and confidence were shattered.

Day 11.
A fresh day and a fresh start, so this time having done a couple of hours of good counting and BS at home I hit them again.
My starting bankroll is $500.
Found a great table with a very chatty dealer, and LOTS of other players, this really slowed it down to a nice level for me, and I thought I did really well, however, the dealer was pulling all sorts of bullshit hands, 21’s a plenty.
I was only minimum betting, but hardly won a hand. Was down $200 (min 10 table) when I decided to cut and run. Went and got some food and drink, and then sat down for another try. Lost another $100, pulled the plug, went home and thought long and hard.
Was I not counting right?, what was the story?, maybe I should have been wonging instead of sitting and playing. Maybe this is the cost of learning….
Talked for ages with a totally hot chick and got her number, so maybe it wasn’t wasted after all.

Day 12
Ok after the day that was yesterday I needed something different to happen, my luck needed to change.
Again walked around and watched for about 45 mins, then got into a table with the TC at +3 (according to noob counts)
And before you know it I was +200, then a dealer change and along came what I can only describe as a human robot, mr no personality speed dealer, no chat nothing.

So I cut and ran, played the slots for 5 minutes, watched some roulette, and sat at the sports bar for 10 mins with some crappy bets, all part of the average guy disguise.
So im now down $100.

Rang the hot chick, she blew me off faster than I could blink.

Today is Day 13 and I think im not going to go in today, practise at home and try work on my skills.


That’s it for now!

haha i very much enjoyed reading this

a couple questions

1) You are counting csms?
2) Theres no other game to play just the 8 deck h17? Because thats not a very good game
3) Do you know $200 can easily just be a swing and with 500 you have a very high ror?
and finally
4)"Rang the hot chick, she blew me off faster than I could blink." was it worth a hundred bucks?
because if you count the cost of that you might even be up a couple hundred!:laugh:

 

[RingyDingy]

Sadly thats it the 8 deck game or the CSM stealth bombers.
No im not counting the CSM's thats just silly.

Id tell you what casino im at, but thats a dead give away and there aint a lot of options where i live, if you get my drift!

Yeah well its just my starting bankroll, its more a learning experince for me at the minute, until i feel confident enough to take it to the next step.

As for the hot chick, yeah she was worth it!

so right now, im down a hundred, plus some fluffy roulette and Sports bet money. Oh wait, food etc too, i must start up a spreadsheet to keep track.

 

[EyeHeartHalves]

Wow, good thread.

You're almost as funny as Easy Rhino. By the way, you must read his thread. It's not hard to find. It's about 30 or so pages long.

First, "Day 1." You know that movie is mostly BS and I'm not talking about basic strategy? However, I think that almost anything that provokes people to beat casinos is probably a good thing.

I've beaten many a casino for what you would call a lot of money. You mentioned that you don't care about making money but you do want to beat casinos. You do know that money is like our scorecard? Therefore, these two concepts are pretty inseperable.

Second, BS, basic strategy, BS, and more BS! This is so important for you because you are already what we call a civilian. You already like to do a little recreational gambling? That's okay but if you knew that house edge against perfect BS was less than 0.67% (in your case) and it's 5.26% against the roulette wheel, at least you could give them less of your money when playing recreationally?

Now, judging by the suckiness of the games that you described, I'm guessing that you're somewhere near the border of Canada but you can still keep that to yourself if you wish. The best way for you to beat this casino is to probably stick to only playing games that you know you can beat. (Right now, that's zero!)

How do you beat it? YOU MUST LEARN BS 100%. The way I would suggest this is to not use a computer but jot it down on paper every day, off the top of your head (no cheating). Then grade yourself. You should find that you get to 100% pretty quickly. Ken Uston's teams would use flashcards. You have to be comfortable with this tedious work because you'll actually have to do it again and again to learn different rules and for BS deviations that are based on the TC.

I would suggest learning RC with 8 actual decks of cards. Other guys will disagree so I'll plead my case now. 1) You cant learn "deck estimation" for purposes of a TC without real cards. A computer is never going to help you. 2) You will notice yourself making payout mistakes with yourself. A computer won't make mistakes but a dealer will. If you can train yourself to catch all mistakes when practicing counting, you can catch all the dealer mistakes in real-time. You need all the extra little edge you can get and this will give you some.

ALWAYS STOP BETTING WITH A TC <= -1!

LEARN THE "ILLUSTRIOUS 18." I think it's in Schlesinger's book. Look it up.

Forget about a spreadsheet for gas and stuff. Your expectation will be $20 per hundred hands if you do this perfectly at the Double-Red-Chip level. I can't imagine you playing more than a few hunded hands per weekend without significant heat or a puny bet spread. You're gonna need a pretty aggressive bet spread. Have you ever bet $200 on a single hand? Just so you know, that might be needed once an hour or so in order to obtain a significant edge over this game.

 

[EasyRhino]

Lost another $100, pulled the plug, went home and thought long and hard.
Was I not counting right?, what was the story?

While possibly a rhetorical question, on that particular day, where you were flat-betting and not backcounting... yes, you were not counting right. Although the short term explanation for those events was luck, not skill.

 

[RingyDingy]

Day 14

Hey thanks for the great advice guys, yes BS means the world, im really getting the hang of it, and in todays session at home I picked up several mistakes of my own, so im going to need to do a lot more work.

Today was very interesting, I practised at home for a good few hours, then got prepped to go to the casino, but a few things held me up at home, so it looks like Monday will be the next play.

Although it does give me more time to practise BS, and work on my counting skills.

I loved Easy’s posts, very insightful and entertaining, so I thought id try my own attempt at them.

Ive never bet 200 bucks in a single hand, ZOMG, I’d need new underwear, I had 60 on a hand once, but that’s it, even then I was totally gunshy.

And for those that may/may not be curious, I rang the hot chick again, and STRIKE 2
Needless to say I wont be having another at bat there.

 

[RingyDingy]

While possibly a rhetorical question, on that particular day, where you were flat-betting and not backcounting... yes, you were not counting right. Although the short term explanation for those events was luck, not skill.

I did one backcount at a table, but was flat betting for the entire time apart from that one backcount.

I really dont feel confidant enough yet to modify my bets based on what i think the count is, once im more proficient in the count, then i think ill slip it up a gear

You knwo the more and more i think about it, the better resource these forums are, you guys rock

 

[EyeHeartHalves]

Hey RingyDingy,

Yea, you gotta get BS down pat. Then practice playing at home with RC, deck estimation, TC, and decision point deviations. I would get used to wonging out at minus one, during practice. Also, get some play chips and practice betting. $60 max bet is way too small for the rules that your describing. You should at least get used to betting 10 to $120 in fake chips at home. Even if in reality you choose to only back count, you still have to learn the fundamentals of counting Hi-Lo from the top of the shoe. Plus, even when you are backcounting in the casino, you're gonna wanna bet at least $50 per hand because you're not going to see more than about 10 hands per hour where you have the edge.

This all assumes by the way, "mid-shoe entry" is allowed in the casino that you're talking about, correct???

Back to this casino, you said your choices were 8d/h17/75% pen. or CSM. You were correct to assume that CSM is off-limits unless you're comp whoring. However, I have a question for you. Are all the 8d games ASM???

So, you know now that you have a long way to go. If you are serious about training to beat this game, you'll end up with a lot more questions. Don't hold back with the questions. We may be a little arrogant sometimes but we like to here from noobies who are serious about this stuff. A lot of us may be egotistical but one day you might come to understand--You have to be egotistical to think that you can make a living from playing a card game!

 

[RingyDingy]

OK well here i go again.

Summary: Broke even today, variance took me down 100, then up 75, then when i couldnt keep count anymore i was around even (slightly up)

Detail: Well ive been practising like crazy here at home, but it just doesnt compare to the real thing, as per the last visit i fudged it a few times, but pretty well managed to stay ahead, i.e wonging out when the TC got into the neg.

Some positives were that i can count faster, and seem to be ignoring the distractions ok, the negatives being that i didnt feel confidant enough in my subterfuge to wong in and out as much as i should have.

Interesting though, i was flat betting at first to "warm up" and the TC was at +3 with not a lot left in the shoe, and this guy who had been watching from the start Wonged his way right in, it was so BLEEDING obvious it wasnt funny, comes in 75 on a hand then a hundred, then two hundred. Sadly he lost the first two but won on the third, then left.

Now im not a trained eye but this was SOOO easy to spot, made me feel very nervous, so i dont feel confidant in wonging, even though as suggested this is probably the only Advantage i have.

Oh and to answer a Q, yes they use ASM's on the not CSM tables.

So some more practice again i feel, i just hope it begins to "click" soon.

As always thanks for the tips and pointers, i have a long way to go

 

[Canceler]

Takes a counter to catch a counter...

...this guy who had been watching from the start Wonged his way right in, it was so BLEEDING obvious it wasnt funny...

Now im not a trained eye but this was SOOO easy to spot...

It was obvious to you because you were counting. It's not quite that obvious to someone not counting.

 

[Nutorious]

Haha great read. Keep updating us on how you do!

 

[RingyDingy]

A quick question for the guru's

Insurance, should i? or shouldnt i?

In yesterdays play, the dealer had an ace 3 times, i took insurance twice, based on a +1 TC, once it payed, the other it didnt.

whats the hard n fast rule on it?

 

[standard toaster]

i take insurance tc +2 every time

 

[la_dee_daa]

i take insurance tc +2 every time

... insurance is +3.1 true count for 8 decks
that is when it become profitable .

 

[la_dee_daa]

... insurance is +3.1 true count for 8 decks
that is when it become profitable .

unless of course you see his hole card
then use for best judgement.

 

[Harman]

unless of course you see his hole card
then use for best judgement.

lol yeah, it's a great help when you see his hole card :joker:

 

[EyeHeartHalves]

Okay, these are important questions...

To answer your question reguarding insurance with Hi-Lo, INSURE EVERY TIME THE TC IS MORE THAN THREE. Out of the "Illustrious 18" that you should have heard being mentioned on this site, that is number one! You cannot bet this game by counting, backcounting and/or wonging alone. You need to know when to deviate from BS. Eventhough, most deviations will not improve your win-rate by much, THIS DEVIATION WILL.

The previous answer of 3.1 is correct but the answer of 2 is incorrect. I'm actually surprised by that answer. I mean with H17/8d, it may be closer to 3.2 or 3.0 but if you just remember to always insure when it's "greater than," you'll be doing yourself a profitable long-term service.

Oh, and I wish to concur with the hole-card scenario. You can quote me on this, "If you ever outright see, glimpse at or have scientific evidence of (see Blackjack Science: Advanced Techniques) a ten in the hole, you should buy insurance."

 

[GeorgeD]

While possibly a rhetorical question, on that particular day, where you were flat-betting and not backcounting... yes, you were not counting right. Although the short term explanation for those events was luck, not skill.

If you flat bet without wonging, you only change your strategy depending on the count, right. Aren't you then playing at a neg EV?

 

[eandre]

The problem with wonging...

RingyDingy;
Interesting though, i was flat betting at first to "warm up" and the TC was at +3 with not a lot left in the shoe, and this guy who had been watching from the start Wonged his way right in, it was so BLEEDING obvious it wasnt funny, comes in 75 on a hand then a hundred, then two hundred. Sadly he lost the first two but won on the third, then left.

Maybe he was wonging, or maybe not. I would think that he was not overly skilled because of the following. At tc+3, a $75 bet is too small for the time needed for back counting. Additionally, any smart player will not raise a bet after losing, especially not under the conditions you described. Opening bet should be bigger and then simply flat line bet to throw any heat off balance Drop the paranoid thinking, why would you be nervous if you are flat line betting? You need worry about anyone except yourself. Develop your own act and perfect it. It works for me...remember blackjack is not a team sport and you only care about winning, not what the table thinks.

 

[BJScott]

Honestly, I wouldn't even bother playing until you can at least do BS perfectly.

What's the rush? Got money to burn?