UK-21
Well-Known Member
Been doing some thinking on the subject of game selection - the goods ones and not so good ones. Single deck 6/5 was on the shopping list of things to examine. I wondered if the regular contributors would care to comment on my thoughts below?
6/5 games? - On this site it's stated that a single deck game paying 6/5 on snappers starts with a house edge of 1.45% (lets say one and a half for the purpose of this posting). Six and eight deck shoe games have an off the top house edge of around half a per cent depending on the house rules. So there's roughly a one per cent off-the top difference between the two games?
Now, as a game is played the edge will continually shift backwards and forwards - perhaps more so in a single deck game, where a RC of plus one or minus one movement is a more significant shift of edge than a +1 or -1 movement in a six deck game. On the reading I've done, a TC of +1 in a normal game is reckoned to virtually eliminate the half percent house edge, and a TC of +2 move it in the favour of the table by roughly around half a percent. Does it therefore follow, that if playing a single deck game paying 6/5 on BJs, a TC of +3 will effectively remove the house edge? If so, would it follow that a TC of +4 or better would put the edge in favour of the table?
If this is the case, is it not more advantageous for a player to be playing a single deck game with a count of +4 with half a deck dealt (albeit with the lower BJ payout), rather than a six deck shoe having a running count of +8 with half a shoe dealt? (I use this simply as an example).
I pose these questions as there's a great deal written about the woes of 6/5 SD blackjack, with the focus on the off-the-top house edge, but not nearly as much consideration given to the greater edge fluctuations which can potentially overcome the 1.5% starting disadvantage? (until the shuffle up anyway). Is there any reason why playing single deck 6/5 at min table stakes, and spreading large when a TC of +3 or better presents itself, couldn't be applied in the same way as with other games with a lower house starting edge?
I suppose further questions fall out of this?
In a previous post somewhere I did ask whether those playing 6/5 tables would receive unwelcome heat as a result of spreading large and being seen as a possible counter. Didn't get much response. Would it be possible to jump from table mins to say 12 units for the next hand and get away with it? Do the pit give a $#it about what goes on at the 6/5 tables bet speading wise?
In 6 deck, 75% pen games, it's stated (in Arnold Snyder's "Blackbelt in Blackjack") that an advantageous edge (based on 3/2 payouts) will only move in the players direction 22% of the time. To what degree does this change in SD games, and would the 6/5 payout effectively counter any improvement?
For a non-pro player like myself visiting LV, where playing time will be quite limited, what are the pros and cons of playing 6/5 games at table mins and upping bets on TC+3 or better (to 16 units at TC +7), against playing shoes on an all hands basis (spreading 1-8/16)? (I appreciate that back counting will improve the 22% of the time that an advantage is playable to 100%).
Putting it another way - which game is better, 6/5 SD or 6 deck play all?
I've asked lots of theoretical questions that go beyond the stictly "don't play 6/5. Period." Apologies in advance if I've hit any raw nerves. Please don't throw back too much rotten fruit.
Newb99.
Just as an afterthought, there are no SD games in licensed casinos in the UK so my posting really is for discussion as a means of putting the issue of advantage/disadvantage of the SD 6/5 game into perspective. The proscribed ruleset to follow in the UK is set by the Gambling Commission - which states clearly that in the UK BJ is to be played with 6 decks.
6/5 games? - On this site it's stated that a single deck game paying 6/5 on snappers starts with a house edge of 1.45% (lets say one and a half for the purpose of this posting). Six and eight deck shoe games have an off the top house edge of around half a per cent depending on the house rules. So there's roughly a one per cent off-the top difference between the two games?
Now, as a game is played the edge will continually shift backwards and forwards - perhaps more so in a single deck game, where a RC of plus one or minus one movement is a more significant shift of edge than a +1 or -1 movement in a six deck game. On the reading I've done, a TC of +1 in a normal game is reckoned to virtually eliminate the half percent house edge, and a TC of +2 move it in the favour of the table by roughly around half a percent. Does it therefore follow, that if playing a single deck game paying 6/5 on BJs, a TC of +3 will effectively remove the house edge? If so, would it follow that a TC of +4 or better would put the edge in favour of the table?
If this is the case, is it not more advantageous for a player to be playing a single deck game with a count of +4 with half a deck dealt (albeit with the lower BJ payout), rather than a six deck shoe having a running count of +8 with half a shoe dealt? (I use this simply as an example).
I pose these questions as there's a great deal written about the woes of 6/5 SD blackjack, with the focus on the off-the-top house edge, but not nearly as much consideration given to the greater edge fluctuations which can potentially overcome the 1.5% starting disadvantage? (until the shuffle up anyway). Is there any reason why playing single deck 6/5 at min table stakes, and spreading large when a TC of +3 or better presents itself, couldn't be applied in the same way as with other games with a lower house starting edge?
I suppose further questions fall out of this?
In a previous post somewhere I did ask whether those playing 6/5 tables would receive unwelcome heat as a result of spreading large and being seen as a possible counter. Didn't get much response. Would it be possible to jump from table mins to say 12 units for the next hand and get away with it? Do the pit give a $#it about what goes on at the 6/5 tables bet speading wise?
In 6 deck, 75% pen games, it's stated (in Arnold Snyder's "Blackbelt in Blackjack") that an advantageous edge (based on 3/2 payouts) will only move in the players direction 22% of the time. To what degree does this change in SD games, and would the 6/5 payout effectively counter any improvement?
For a non-pro player like myself visiting LV, where playing time will be quite limited, what are the pros and cons of playing 6/5 games at table mins and upping bets on TC+3 or better (to 16 units at TC +7), against playing shoes on an all hands basis (spreading 1-8/16)? (I appreciate that back counting will improve the 22% of the time that an advantage is playable to 100%).
Putting it another way - which game is better, 6/5 SD or 6 deck play all?
I've asked lots of theoretical questions that go beyond the stictly "don't play 6/5. Period." Apologies in advance if I've hit any raw nerves. Please don't throw back too much rotten fruit.
Newb99.
Just as an afterthought, there are no SD games in licensed casinos in the UK so my posting really is for discussion as a means of putting the issue of advantage/disadvantage of the SD 6/5 game into perspective. The proscribed ruleset to follow in the UK is set by the Gambling Commission - which states clearly that in the UK BJ is to be played with 6 decks.
