Omega II Counting question

zengrifter

Banned
CountingCards said:
- I think I will wong-in when the TC is +1 or more, and wong-out when the TC is -2 or less.
I will defer to anyone who's got more accuracy on this, but for your proposed casino rules,
I think the wong in would be at +2, not +1.

As for wong-out, if you can go in and out without hassle, get out at 0.
Use imaginary cell calls and back away from the table while pretending to talk, a
nd jump back in when it returns to +2.

If there are sufficient other tables, you might abandon the table altogether at
-3 or -4 and go to another. zg
 

CountingCards

Active Member
Good point. Since this game is a little less than desirable (it's all I have though), the wong in point should be TC +2. As for getting out at low counts, there's about 40 tables in this casino, so my friend and I should be able to wong relatively comfortably, right?
 

zengrifter

Banned
zengrifter said:
In my ENPPO ("expert non-pro poser opinion") there are more important aspects of the game to be focused on. zg
For example, one that the Syph mentioned earlier, being able to count two tables simultaneously until one hits the strike point - may be a little tougher than standard Ace-density but worth a lot more.

Another - keying the Aces - using TWO key cards, same story. zg
 

CountingCards

Active Member
Wow, that is a cool idea! It's nice how there's always something new to learn. If both my friend and I could backcount 2 tables at once, then we'd be essentially 4 spotters and 2 big players. Haha.
 
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zengrifter

Banned
CountingCards said:
If both my friend and I could backcount 2 tables at once, then we'd be essentially 4 spotters and 2 big players. Haha.
Sort of. You can spot for one another... but because of the sharedbank you
cannot really fully play the big counts together. You spot he wongs you walk. zg
 

zengrifter

Banned
CountingCards said:
Good point. Since this game is a little less than desirable (it's all I have though), the wong in point should be TC +2. As for getting out at low counts, there's about 40 tables in this casino, so my friend and I should be able to wong relatively comfortably, right?
Yes... but the two of you should avoid being seen as together at all cost. zg
 

CountingCards

Active Member
zengrifter said:
Yes... but the two of you should avoid being seen as together at all cost. zg
Yes, we will definitely be careful about this. As I said before, there's not many casino choices around here, so I'd prefer to be unbarred as long as possible.

I'm not sure if you're still here (it's 12:30 AM for me), but I wanted to ask you how much expectation can I have by playing with 2 people on only good counts? According to the Casino Verite database, this particular casino has "Fair" penetration. Not really sure what that means, but I'm guessing it's around 75% and probably varies from dealer to dealer.

Thanks for your time zg, you are the man. It's inspiring for me to talk about the game.
 

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
CountingCards said:
Thank you zg, that's exactly what I needed to read. It cleared up a lot of doubts I was having. So, based on what I've learned in this thread, here's what I propose:

- I will stick to playing Zen (Omega indices) with a 1-12 bet spread.
- I think I will wong-in when the TC is +1 or more, and wong-out when the TC is -2 or less.
- For my betting strategy I will use +1, 2, 3, 4, 5 TC as 2 units, 4, 8, 10, and 12 respectively

Is there anything else anyone would like to add, or am I pretty much ready to hit the casino now (after I master the swapped 9 and Ace of course)?

Thanks again for all your input.
If you play multiple deck, you bump your bet too late. You should make most of your killing in TC +2, no later than +3.

This is what I recommend:
TC Bet Unit
0/Neg 1
+1 2 (add one unit for each win, reset to 2 if you lose)
+2 8
+3 12
 

CountingCards

Active Member
BJgenius007 said:
If you play multiple deck, you bump your bet too late. You should make most of your killing in TC +2, no later than +3.

This is what I recommend:
TC Bet Unit
0/Neg 1
+1 2 (add one unit for each win, reset to 2 if you lose)
+2 8
+3 12
Well, not to be rude, but I noticed in another thread called "Zen Count", you made almost this exact same suggestion, then zengrifter proceeded to tell the original poster to disregard your advice, and apparently the advice was bad enough to warrant a laugh from him too.

Not sure what to think about this one.
 

zengrifter

Banned
BJgenius007 said:
If you play multiple deck, you bump your bet too late. You should make most of your killing in TC +2, no later than +3.

This is what I recommend:
TC Bet Unit
0/Neg 1
+1 2 (add one unit for each win, reset to 2 if you lose)
+2 8
+3 12
His BR is too small. zg
 

CountingCards

Active Member
This $3000 bankroll is just for testing purposes. Win or lose, my partner and I will get a lot of valuable real life experience. If/when we lose the bankroll, then we will develop a bankroll of at least 250 max bets.

Thanks for the depressing comment though.
 

zengrifter

Banned
CountingCards said:
This $3000 bankroll is just for testing purposes. Win or lose, my partner and I will get a lot of valuable real life experience. If/when we lose the bankroll, then we will develop a bankroll of at least 250 max bets.

Thanks for the depressing comment though.
50-50 max is plenty strong for the experiment.
Get someone to run some ramp sims and you can fine tune how soon you dare max. zg
 

jack.jackson

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
50-50 max is plenty strong for the experiment.
Get someone to run some ramp sims and you can fine tune how soon you dare max. zg
Unless im mistaken he can dowload the Demo of CVCX which has canned sims for Zen that calculates optimal betting ramps. That way he can dtermine what RoR hes willing to accept.

http://www.qfit.com/downloads.htm
 

CountingCards

Active Member
Hey Jack. I downloaded CVCX, but unfortunately the demo appears to only come with a canned sim for HiLo (sweet 16, fab 4). I could create the sim myself I suppose. But there's some abbreviations in this program that I must say I'm unfamiliar with.

Regarding the bankroll, yes I am able to replenish if I lose it all, I wouldn't be doing this experiment with money that was important for rent, food, etc. But realistically, my friend and I have agreed that if we lose exactly half our bankroll, we will take a step back and fully evaluate what's been happening. If it turns out that we were playing perfectly and that it's just one of those negative variances, then we will push onwards. How does that sound?

Oh, we also will be keeping a detailed log of every casino session, so that we can refine our play or make adjustments. I don't want to be playing at anything short of my best.
 
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jack.jackson

Well-Known Member
CountingCards said:
Hey Jack. I downloaded CVCX, but unfortunately the demo appears to only come with a canned sim for HiLo (sweet 16, fab 4). I could create the sim myself I suppose. But there's some abbreviations in this program that I must say I'm unfamiliar with.

Regarding the bankroll, yes I am able to replenish if I lose it all, I wouldn't be doing this experiment with money that was important for rent, food, etc. But realistically, my friend and I have agreed that if we lose exactly half our bankroll, we will take a step back and fully evaluate what's been happening. If it turns out that we were playing perfectly and that it's just one of those negative variances, then we will push onwards. How does that sound?

Oh, we also will be keeping a detailed log of every casino session, so that we can refine our play or make adjustments. I don't want to be playing at anything short of my best.
Damn! Try this then. Once downloaded, try importing the Zen file from CVCX. Hope it works!

http://www.qfit.com/cvcxArchivesV3.htm
 
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CountingCards

Active Member
jack said:
Damn! Try this then. Once downloaded, try importing the Zen file from CVCX. Hope it works!

http://www.qfit.com/cvcxArchivesV3.htm
Excuse my childish exclamation, but this is just AWESOME. I downloaded the sims for Adv. Omega II with and without Ace side count, the Mentor count, and of course the Zen count. I plugged in my casino's rules and it turns out the betting strategy I was going to use was a bit off! It's so great how you can input your bankroll and trip amount, and adjust your RoR as well. I am going to be having some real playtime with this program. Thanks a lot for this Jack :D

Regarding the Zen version, I did use the 1980 Full Indices. I am going to be doing some comparisons, that's for sure.

EDIT: Ok, I just checked the Zen for the exact game I'll be playing. Backcounting until I have the advantage, with a $500 trip amount, betting $5 with a 1-12 spread. Now, I'm not sure if this is right, but at the bottom right of the sim it says that I will be winning 11 cents per hour. That is horrendous...I must be doing something wrong with the simulation, right? In Fred Renzey's book, he gives a much nicer estimate, using a $10-100 spread, averaging about $17.50/hour. A $5-60 spread and a $10-100 spread can't possibly have that much difference... According to the book, that $17.50 is with the simple Hi/Lo too, and I'm using the beastly Zen count here. So something must be messed up?
 
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