UnevenSeven
Active Member
lol!ycming said:
Our New Team. Profitable?
- Thread starter Koz1984
- Start date
non-self-weighter
Well-Known Member
I stopped reading here.Koz1984 said:
You've made several mistakes already;
You've given too detailed a description of exactly where you are planning to play - i'm fairly sure that if i really wanted i could name the casino you're going to be playing at in under 5 minutes. If there is anyone from the Austrailian industry looking at this right now, they are now looking for you.
You've also decided that this is the only game you can possibly play. It's not - for a start, the casino you're discussing isn't the only casino you can play, you're just reluctant to travel. Admittedly you need to ensure you have enough opportunity to recomp travel expenses as well as a reasonable wage, but it is possible. That would extend your lifespan. Hitting the same casino again and again is just an invitation for a quick barring. As this is your only venue, no doubt you'll also play session that are too long. All this means that your fun will be over before it's really begun. Also - as has been pointed out to you - you're probably far better off playing pontoon. The change from playing one to the other isn't that dramatic, and i'm sure you could play that on the main floor reducing the attention you receive.
Not trying to be mean here - but if you're serious about making money, you have to learn from your mistakes quickly.
RJT.
You've given too detailed a description of exactly where you are planning to play - i'm fairly sure that if i really wanted i could name the casino you're going to be playing at in under 5 minutes. If there is anyone from the Austrailian industry looking at this right now, they are now looking for you.
You've also decided that this is the only game you can possibly play. It's not - for a start, the casino you're discussing isn't the only casino you can play, you're just reluctant to travel. Admittedly you need to ensure you have enough opportunity to recomp travel expenses as well as a reasonable wage, but it is possible. That would extend your lifespan. Hitting the same casino again and again is just an invitation for a quick barring. As this is your only venue, no doubt you'll also play session that are too long. All this means that your fun will be over before it's really begun. Also - as has been pointed out to you - you're probably far better off playing pontoon. The change from playing one to the other isn't that dramatic, and i'm sure you could play that on the main floor reducing the attention you receive.
Not trying to be mean here - but if you're serious about making money, you have to learn from your mistakes quickly.
RJT.
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Deathclutch
Well-Known Member
That game is atrocious. You'd be better served to backcount there every few weeks or so solo. You'll save the headaches this partnership is sure to create, gain valuable experience, and maybe even play a profitable game until your bankroll is at a point where travel or partnership become necessary.Koz1984 said:
Good luck to you though!
Charles Wells
Member
team play
Having played at this casino many times all I can say is forget about team play unless you want to punish yourself and its not because of heat.
There is zero heat at this casino (I once even had a dealer count along with me and give me advice on which system to use and a more conservative better strategy -all while the supervisor looked on and rolled his eyes). In short, counters are allowed to ply their trade without interference.
Most wannabe AP's are seriously under financed and fail for this reason.
I did hear of a team that had a 250K bankroll but there was so much arguing about how to split profits and what to do about consistent losing players that it broke up soon after it started. Im surprised that they didnt shoot each other.
I would save some more money and go to Vegas where you can play against less decks, surrender etc.
Having played at this casino many times all I can say is forget about team play unless you want to punish yourself and its not because of heat.
There is zero heat at this casino (I once even had a dealer count along with me and give me advice on which system to use and a more conservative better strategy -all while the supervisor looked on and rolled his eyes). In short, counters are allowed to ply their trade without interference.
Most wannabe AP's are seriously under financed and fail for this reason.
I did hear of a team that had a 250K bankroll but there was so much arguing about how to split profits and what to do about consistent losing players that it broke up soon after it started. Im surprised that they didnt shoot each other.
I would save some more money and go to Vegas where you can play against less decks, surrender etc.
blackjackstudent
Well-Known Member
Yes you are right Charles - there is no heat at the moment because the house edge is pretty high - H17 8 deck games with no surrender option.
Most supervisors dont know how to count using Hi-Lo - they are there to make sure that cash in excess of $ 500 are under their supervision.
Katarina Walker mentions that Australian BJ is probably one of the worse, if not, the worst in the world.
Most Australian casinos uses CSMs on the main floor and they use shoe games in the VIP rooms but some casinos like Tasmanian ones only have two shoe games tables throughout the whole casino.
Heat was present maybe 5 years ago but no heat now because back 5 years ago, there were shoe games with S 17 on the main floor. BJ on the main floor pays 6 to 5 with H 17 if you are betting $ 5 to $ 15 minimum. If you are betting $ 25 or more on the higher stake tables, then its still H 17 with restricted doubling to 9,10 and 11.
Most supervisors dont know how to count using Hi-Lo - they are there to make sure that cash in excess of $ 500 are under their supervision.
Katarina Walker mentions that Australian BJ is probably one of the worse, if not, the worst in the world.
Most Australian casinos uses CSMs on the main floor and they use shoe games in the VIP rooms but some casinos like Tasmanian ones only have two shoe games tables throughout the whole casino.
Heat was present maybe 5 years ago but no heat now because back 5 years ago, there were shoe games with S 17 on the main floor. BJ on the main floor pays 6 to 5 with H 17 if you are betting $ 5 to $ 15 minimum. If you are betting $ 25 or more on the higher stake tables, then its still H 17 with restricted doubling to 9,10 and 11.
Charles Wells
Member
You can double any two cards at crown - I have done it for hours (only on 25/30/50 min tables).
I would never play low min tables its full of ploppies that have never even seen a BS chart.
You would be suprised how many dealers and supervisors can count (really well). They just dont take action against advantage players.
I have only known one person to have been barred from playing BJ at an Australian casino since 1972. They dont care as long as you go about your business quietly.
I would never play low min tables its full of ploppies that have never even seen a BS chart.
You would be suprised how many dealers and supervisors can count (really well). They just dont take action against advantage players.
I have only known one person to have been barred from playing BJ at an Australian casino since 1972. They dont care as long as you go about your business quietly.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
If you have >90% pen you have a gold mine. Do not let anyone discourage you about this game because of the rules. A bad game with good pen is a good game, and you can take that to the bank.Koz1984 said:
Still, there is absolutely no reason to use a "big player" strategy in such a game. Play together with your mates, make your bankroll-sharing arrangements and backcount in pairs for slightly better efficiency, and just get out there and do it.
In this kind of game, probably your most important skill to develop is proper entry and exit points for the shoes.
For once AM, i actually agree with you about this. The spread they're intending to use simply isn't big enough to justify a BP routine - or perhaps more accurately their top bet is too low. But i'm still of the mind that playing only one location isn't a real money maker in the longrun. If heat is non-existent, it won't be for long if you take any serious change off them. Play, get some experience and then work out a system where you can get to other venues.Automatic Monkey said:
RJT.
Charles Wells
Member
penetration
You can get 85% pen regularly in the VIP rooms which offer "premium BJ".
From my observations, the young asian female dealers seem to give better penetration. The level of dealing has also dropped and there are plenty of sloppy dealers around.
I have been paid on stand offs more times than I can remember and even paid my natural when the dealer had a ten.
Even though the rules arent the best the fact that you can spread 1-50 without any heat and get good pen makes it a beatable game. You just have to have a good bankroll, patience and be confident in your abilities.
You can get 85% pen regularly in the VIP rooms which offer "premium BJ".
From my observations, the young asian female dealers seem to give better penetration. The level of dealing has also dropped and there are plenty of sloppy dealers around.
I have been paid on stand offs more times than I can remember and even paid my natural when the dealer had a ten.
Even though the rules arent the best the fact that you can spread 1-50 without any heat and get good pen makes it a beatable game. You just have to have a good bankroll, patience and be confident in your abilities.
Im sorry I just can't see the reasoning behind this. I agree to dropping the BP option, but if thats the case, the gorilla option is even worse. You are basically doing the same thing, only with a gorilla, the spotter must stay at the table with him guiding his play. Using a BP the spotter can leave the table after the call in or just pass off the count backcounting. Either way the spotter can leave while playing with a BP and go off to count another table so that the BP may be able to leave one table and go to another when through with an advantage. A spotter and a gorilla limits the amount of play you will get, and loses alot of ev. If you have players on your team that have the skills to play, then they should all play seperately and the money made should get split based upon an agreement of profit sharing. If heat is not a real issue at your casino than it should be no problem to play this way, and is definitely more profitable. There is no need for everyone to be playing at the same time in the same session either. With a team like this where every man plays for himself, but yet the bankroll and profits are pooled together, players could play different shifts, even different days. It doesn't matter. If you don't trust them enough to do this you should not have the team on any level anyway. I have used BP and Gorilla play extensively, it works great under the right circumstances. You do not have those circumstances.Koz1984 said:
Sorry I must clarify that we will not have two spotters playing table min., rather two backcounters that will signal the gorilla once TC = +2, pass off the count to them, and then continue backcounting at another table. So in effect we will have two backcounters and two players.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Be a monkey, not a gorilla
What you need is for everybody to backcount and play counts as they find them. I recommend going out in pairs because if you find a good table with two non-adjacent spots available you can still get two hands in the game, and if there are two adjacent spots available one player can play them both while the other counter backcounts another table. Playing in pairs also improves record keeping and security.
Do you see the logistical inefficiency with that? OK, suppose the spotter calls the gorilla in and the gorilla is playing his game. The spotter goes to another table and begins backcounting, and sees another good count. But the gorilla isn't available, he's still playing the other table. The good count goes to waste.Koz1984 said:
What you need is for everybody to backcount and play counts as they find them. I recommend going out in pairs because if you find a good table with two non-adjacent spots available you can still get two hands in the game, and if there are two adjacent spots available one player can play them both while the other counter backcounts another table. Playing in pairs also improves record keeping and security.