POLL: DO you have or intend to buy Beyond Counting II
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I think that's a bit too strong. The importance of the first book, in my mind, is that it displayed the fact that games can be beaten that you might think cannot. That one should look for unusual opportunities. That many twists and turns exist in casino games. That made it an excellent book. But, most purchasers made no money from the book. (Except by reselling it on eBay.
) It is a pity they printed so few copies. Downright pointless in my mind. I called it a must read at its original price. But, certainly not at its exaggerated price. I'm glad the people trying to sell the original at absurd prices will get stuck with them.
) It is a pity they printed so few copies. Downright pointless in my mind. I called it a must read at its original price. But, certainly not at its exaggerated price. I'm glad the people trying to sell the original at absurd prices will get stuck with them.
QFIT said:
I think that's a bit too strong. The importance of the first book, in my mind, is that it displayed the fact that games can be beaten that you might think cannot. That one should look for unusual opportunities. That many twists and turns exist in casino games. That made it an excellent book. But, most purchasers made no money from the book. (Except by reselling it on eBay.) It is a pity they printed so few copies. Downright pointless in my mind. I called it a must read at its original price. But, certainly not at its exaggerated price. I'm glad the people trying to sell the original at absurd prices will get stuck with them.
) It is a pity they printed so few copies. Downright pointless in my mind. I called it a must read at its original price. But, certainly not at its exaggerated price. I'm glad the people trying to sell the original at absurd prices will get stuck with them.
I think the people that bought the book and didnt make money from it were not putting in enough hours or not serious enough about beating casinos. I realize that some of the things discussed in the book are rare and not an everyday occurence. however, for a serious player that spends a lot of time in the casino, they are likely to come across these opportunities at some point and when the opportunity presents itself, these players will have the knowledge necessary to exploit the opportunity as a result of this book.
All it takes is one opportunity that you wouldnt otherwise have found in order for the book to be worth the price in most cases. Lets be honest, $250 is a pretty minor expense for a lot of serious players and although i have yet to get my hands on the book, i have no doubt that there will be enough new info to make up for the expense.
Going back to my original comment, i dont believe there are any true APs that would have "no interest at all" in buying this book unless your on the same level as Grosjean.
Well, I'm not sure how many people here have been at a casino at closing time, and ran over to put a bet on the line at Craps just before the table closed to get an advantage in the case that he made a point and the money was returned because the table closed with bets still working.
Sorry, I am weary of the classification of people as "true APs" or "real pros" or not. People follow AP strategies for many reasons. Vocation, avocation, just wanting to play correctly. Labeling players has become tiresome. Just my opinion.
Sorry, I am weary of the classification of people as "true APs" or "real pros" or not. People follow AP strategies for many reasons. Vocation, avocation, just wanting to play correctly. Labeling players has become tiresome. Just my opinion.
My understanding of the original book is that it has a lot of good stuff on edgy AP that involves holecarding and general sneaky stuff that's great when you can get it but not everyday opportunities for most players.
Chances are, the next dirty trick I get to play will be something I discover on my own and not something described in Beyond Counting II. When I catch a store blowing a rule or offering an unorthodox promotion, I'd rather be prepared to run to my computer and analyze it myself. So I'm not going to be buying it.
Chances are, the next dirty trick I get to play will be something I discover on my own and not something described in Beyond Counting II. When I catch a store blowing a rule or offering an unorthodox promotion, I'd rather be prepared to run to my computer and analyze it myself. So I'm not going to be buying it.
To each their own but what is specail about Grosjean's original BC is the cunning riddles and allusions that make an AP also have to read between the lines. He leaves finding the opportunities up to the AP but exposes the AP to advantages that are "beyond counting". To call it of little value is true to a closed minded counter. If anyone wants to add several tricks that are much, much stronger than counting one would never say the things that are being posted in this thread. If you are happy counting 8 deck shoes then Grosjean's works are not for you.
My Review
Let me start off by saying that it was definately a good read. Including some articles that can be found online, he gives additional info about blackjack sidebets, team play, and busts some "myths" that CCs may have. It was also filled with information on beating various carnival games depending on what information is available to you and how to deal with higher levels of heat and camo. I suppose an important question prior to purchasing this book would be what your ethics are. Most of the information on beating various carnival games require things like hole/next card info. If you don't agree with these techniques, the majority of the book won't be valueble to you. However, if you are like me, and believe in a different set of moral standards, one that allows you to search for and use this information, you will probably find this book at least interesting. It is true that the information in the book may not earn you much (if any) money. While the profit potential with the information can be huge, one may never find the opportunity. It does not give information on how to obtain the information necessary to win, but how to use it. So back to the original question: is this book worth $250? Probably not. However, for those interested in advanced techniques, I suggest getting this book if you can.
Let me start off by saying that it was definately a good read. Including some articles that can be found online, he gives additional info about blackjack sidebets, team play, and busts some "myths" that CCs may have. It was also filled with information on beating various carnival games depending on what information is available to you and how to deal with higher levels of heat and camo. I suppose an important question prior to purchasing this book would be what your ethics are. Most of the information on beating various carnival games require things like hole/next card info. If you don't agree with these techniques, the majority of the book won't be valueble to you. However, if you are like me, and believe in a different set of moral standards, one that allows you to search for and use this information, you will probably find this book at least interesting. It is true that the information in the book may not earn you much (if any) money. While the profit potential with the information can be huge, one may never find the opportunity. It does not give information on how to obtain the information necessary to win, but how to use it. So back to the original question: is this book worth $250? Probably not. However, for those interested in advanced techniques, I suggest getting this book if you can.
The author seems to believe in team play and pushing the envelope about what is right and ethical. In that spirit, I propose we form a team to buy this book. I won't buy it as an individual,so if I find seven like minded people, we can buy the book together. Rather than costing the author a loss of sales, we will be purchasing a copy he would not have sold otherwise.
They may. I’ve seen numerous people on this website posting about playing bad shoe games because “it’s the only game available”. We have people risking their entire bankroll to grind out $10 per hour. They might be surprised to know that they can increase their profit tenfold (or more) by learning to recognize better games that are right under their noses. I agree that the book is not completely necessary and that it probably will not financially benefit the majority of players, but the few people that put it to good use will be handsomely rewarded IMHO.
-Sonny-
I’ve seen numerous people on this website posting about playing bad shoe games because “it’s the only game available”. We have people risking their entire bankroll to grind out $10 per hour. They might be surprised to know that they can increase their profit tenfold (or more) by learning to recognize better games that are right under their noses. I agree that the book is not completely necessary and that it probably will not financially benefit the majority of players, but the few people that put it to good use will be handsomely rewarded IMHO.-Sonny-