Powersim v 6 Confusion

[Dyepaintball12]

Hey everybody. I recently downloaded "Power Sim v 6" to see if I could run some of my own simulations. Anyway, I think Im doing this right, but the outcome is confusing to me.

I typed in that I was playing:

8deck
DAS
DOA
RSA 4 times
NS
75% Pen
S17

For my betting ramp I put:

-2=$15
1=$20
3=$30
7=$40
9=$45
( because Systemstrader made this system for me)

Anyway, I wrote that I would have 4 players at the table, 2 counting using indices.

I did 2 sims, and for the first one I said my BR was $2,000, and the second my BR was $10,000.

The results for sim 1 was player one losing money with a ROR of 100%, and player 2 making some money with a ROR of 99.999%.

Systems Trader had me at 34.8% ROR.

The results for sim 2 was both player 1 and 2 making money, but with ROR rates at 85% and 56%.

Is this correct or am I doing something wrong? It seems like with a $10,000 BR and a max bet of $45 with 2 players the ROR would be lower.


Thanks,

David

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Ok, so then i did another sim, sim3, which I increased my bet ramp by alot, assuming that would lead to a higher ROR.

This was it:

0 - $15

2 - $25

5 - $40

8 - $50

10 - $60

20 - $100


I basically just made up these bets to see what would happen, and the results were both players making about .5 per hand with a ROR of 3% and 2%.

I dont get it. I increase my max bet from $45 to $100 and the ROR goes WAYYYY down? This software is confusing me greatly.


Thanks,

David

 

[Canceler]

I typed in that I was playing:

8deck
DAS
DOA
RSA 4 times
NS
75% Pen
S17

For my betting ramp I put:

-2=$15
1=$20
3=$30
7=$40
9=$45
( because Systemstrader made this system for me)

So you're playing 8 decks with a 1:3 spread, and your max bet doesn't occur until +9 TC?

1) I'm not totally surprised at the results.
2) You must have misunderstood SystemsTrader somehow.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Well wait, are the Power Sim numbers assuming a TC or a RC when they ask you how much you bet at each level? I was thinking it was RC because it goes from -20 to +20 but I could be wrong.

 

[Canceler]

Well wait, are the Power Sim numbers assuming a TC or a RC when they ask you how much you bet at each level? I was thinking it was RC because it goes from -20 to +20 but I could be wrong.

PowerSim will handle either balanced or unbalanced counts. Whether it refers to TC or RC depends on which system you're using.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Im using the "PSRed" system because I use the Red 7 count

 

[Canceler]

Im using the "PSRed" system because I use the Red 7 count

You would pick one I know nothing about! :laugh:
But it's unbalanced, so you're dealing with RC. I have no idea what your betting ramp should be.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

So here is my data for 2 players:

Ramp:
0: 30
6: 45
8: 60
12: 90
16: 120

Results"

100000 rounds Bankroll = 10000
1: $.102675/$5.6946 = 1.803023% var = 371.906 SCORE = 28.3463 ROR = .0039996
2: $.0558/$5.6946 = .979876% var = 383 SCORE = 8.12962 ROR = .0542669

So player one would make $.102 per round and has a ROR of .3% with player two making $.055 an hour with an ROR of 5% if I am correct.

But what does score mean?

 

[Canceler]

The PowerSim instructions give a rather unhelpful explanation of SCORE. As near as I can tell, it's a number based on the rules and on your bet ramp. The higher the SCORE, the better. Somebody else will have to give a better explanation.

To get good results you'll need to run much more than 100,000 rounds, especially since you're using an unbalanced count. When I was simming KO it was suggested that I use 1 billion rounds. (I'm guessing this is why your Player 1 and Player 2 are so far different.)

 

[EasyRhino]

I haven't done much KO work with it, but the first thing would be to make sure you've got it set up to do your unbalance count correctly. If you were doing it with the basic powersim you'd need to enter your tags for each card, and then an IRC. If you're using a massively customized IRC, then I would probably set it to the baseline" so you get all your bet variation with in -20 and +20.

The initial bet spread of $15-$45 would seem, from a common sense perspective, to be too damn small. Unless you're trying to simulate backcounting, in which case you need to explicitly type in bets of zero during more negative counts, and keep that high bet at the super positive counts. Any chance that was the problem?

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Ok I think I figured it out. But I do have another question:

Is there an approxamate average amount of hands/rounds that a player would see per hour having 2-4 players at the table?

Because Power Sim v 6 says I will make $x per round, Im thinking I need to times this $x per round by how many rounds I have per hour to get my hourly $$.


Thanks,

David

 

[EasyRhino]

100 rounds per hour is used as a very common placeholder. It's easy. It would correspond to play with others at the table, but a "fast" table.

A crowded slow table could drop down to 50 hands or less. Heads up with a fast dealer could be 200 or more.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Ok, so with PowerSim you can have more than 1 player on a combined bankroll, in my case $10,000, but then they both get a seperate WIN rate and ROR rate.

So even though the ROR rates are very similar, is that the ROR of the team or do you have to add all the players ROR's together?

 

[Kasi]

Ok, so with PowerSim you can have more than 1 player on a combined bankroll, in my case $10,000, but then they both get a seperate WIN rate and ROR rate.

So even though the ROR rates are very similar, is that the ROR of the team or do you have to add all the players ROR's together?

Whoa. You mean you're both playing at the same table to a combined bankroll?

Try 1 player playing 2 hands with the total bankroll against the dealer and see what happens.

Maybe the program assumes they play at different tables?

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Well it asks how many players, then asks whats the bankroll, so Im not sure exactly what its assuming.

I guess it could be assuming a player is playing 2 hands or that 2 players are playing at the same table.

 

[EasyRhino]

In general, I think the other players are just there add "noise" to the simulation, and demonstarte the effect of card eating on EV and such.