Pros and Cons of Team Play

Wookets

Wookets

Well-Known Member
Greetings everyone, new member here, but I've been lurking and reading posts for the past few weeks. I'd like to start my membership here by posing a question to everyone.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of participating in team play? What factors (both tangible and not) affect the success of team play?

Thanks,

Wookets
 
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Welcome!

Wookets said:
What factors (both tangible and not) effect the success of team play?
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The most important factor, and I think everyone will agree, is absolute trust in your team. You're going to be exchanging hundreds/thousands/millions in cash with these people, so 100% trust is absolutely necessary - not even 99% trust will suffice.

The most successful teams have been built around pre-existing common bonds that people have - family, attending the same college, childhood friendship, etc. That's where they get their trust from, not because of some interview or passing a test, but because they already trusted each other before they were part of a team.

Wookets said:
What are the advantages and disadvantages of participating in team play?
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My opinion:

The biggest advantage of team play is that you can earn more money. EV's are huge compared to what you can earn alone. Team members are also less likely to be detected individually, although if you're not careful, the whole team can be detected as a group and banned en masse.

The biggest disadvantage is that you're relying on other people. It's human nature to blame the other person if he signals you in, you bet five rounds, and don't see a single face card. If every single team member doesn't trust every other member 100%, these suspicions are going to come up. Once allegations of cheating or stealing come up, that's generally the end of the team.
 
Nail on the Head

Cally got it.
Trust is the biggest factor. The biggest advantage is that everyone can be playing off one BR. Making much more $$$.
 
callipygian said:
Welcome!The most successful teams have been built around pre-existing common bonds that people have - family, attending the same college, childhood friendship, etc.
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While this is absolutely true, keep in mind the downside: just remember that the easiest way to harm--or even destroy--a relationship with a family member or best friend is to go into business with them (or to take them on as a client in most lines of work). Catch 22.
 
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Martin Gayle said:
Cally got it.
Trust is the biggest factor. The biggest advantage is that everyone can be playing off one BR. Making much more $$$.
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Well, not only playing with a larger BR but playing with a higher advantage.
i.e A big player will only get called in when the count is high.
 
A team playing off a combined bankroll enjoys accelerated earnings and decreased volatility.

A team with "Big Players" exists mostly in fond memories and bad movies.

 
FLASH1296 said:
A team playing off a combined bankroll enjoys accelerated earnings and decreased volatility.

A team with "Big Players" exists mostly in fond memories and bad movies.
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That is correct.

But there are other things a team can do beyond playing off a joint bank. Combined sequencing/counting attacks, sidecounting for sidebets, card-eating games and simply sharing information about good pen at the moment can be wonderful things.
 

I certainly agree with AutomaticMonkey, although the longevity and viability
of a team is inversely proportional to the size of the team.

Unfortunately, the crucial issues of trust, reliability, and responsibility
become less and less manageable as the 'team' grows.


 
Thanks for the responses. About the higher profit advantage - is this largely because a team is able to play more hands than a single person or because a team can share crucial deck information?
 
Wookets said:
Thanks for the responses. About the higher profit advantage - is this largely because a team is able to play more hands than a single person or because a team can share crucial deck information?
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Both, and yet another thing- speed! We play much faster than the civilians so a table full of AP teammates is going to fly through hands 50-100% faster than a table with civilians screwing around, playing sidebets, cashing in, coloring out etc. Profit per hour goes up linearly with speed.

So I'd propose that the ideal size for a team, is 3. Enough to play 2 spots each on a 6 spot table.
 
johndoe said:
It would be highly amusing (and puzzling to the pit?) to see three people's bets rise and fall in harmony at one table.
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They don't have to be in harmony. Correlation betting is a great way to fool the old Mindplay machines.

-Sonny-
 
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Sonny said:
They don't have to be in harmony. Correlation betting is a great way to fool the old Mindplay machines.
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What would be extra funny is if three team members were playing at the same table and some but not all of them were banned.
 
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Automatic Monkey said:
Three "drunk" guys can have a lot of fun with it. Calling each other pussies, daring each other to bet even more at certain times.
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I do this all the time and its really funny to watch. Usually the dealers get right into it with you too if you can play the part well enough.
 
Ill one up you here itrack, how about us, raising and lowering our bets in harmony, taking insurance in harmony all sitting beside one another for 60 in 3 months at the same store. Its a thing of beauty.
 
Wookets said:
Greetings everyone, new member here, but I've been lurking and reading posts for the past few weeks. I'd like to start my membership here by posing a question to everyone.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of participating in team play? What factors (both tangible and not) affect the success of team play?

Thanks,

Wookets
Click to expand...

Advantage ( Cover ) Disadvantage ( Training Time )
 
Big Player Team Play

Is anyone using the BP the way it used to be or like Flash said, "in the movies"?

I have considered it a thing of the past, it is obvious to the PB, so much heat is drawn by ANY big bettor on the floor nowadays, everyone gets 86'd at once etc.

Are most teams out there just using playing off combined BR's? Any clever variations of BP Team Play going on that you would like to share?
 
Martin Gayle said:
Is anyone using the BP the way it used to be or like Flash said, "in the movies"?

I have considered it a thing of the past, it is obvious to the PB, so much heat is drawn by ANY big bettor on the floor nowadays, everyone gets 86'd at once etc.

Are most teams out there just using playing off combined BR's? Any clever variations of BP Team Play going on that you would like to share?
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Of course BP team play can be used. What makes it so obvious? Is backcounting obvious? What is seen in the movies is no more accurate in the positive aspects as well as the negative. The myth has become that this type of play is too outrageous and blatant due to the rather pedestrian knowledge most have of it. If done right, its less obvious than backcounting, and there are no wild spreads even if the bets are high. The publicity has actually helped in the ease of how to pull this method of play off. Once someone falls for the image of BP play as portrayed in the movies or books, it becomes a very valuable and easy system to implement. My team still uses this system quite often with stellar results.
 
Martin Gayle said:
Is anyone using the BP the way it used to be or like Flash said, "in the movies"?
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When I last played with a team we used the BP as in the movies. However, this might be "used to be," if you're talking about post-21 vs. pre-21. It was the year before and the year after BDTH was published.
 
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