Public Record Keystone Tag Values

K

Keystone

Member
Forum Members:

I would like to post the following publication in order to establish a public record of my proprietary blackjack card counting system:

The system is referred to as the "Keystone Advantage Point Count" and has the following tag values: Aces & Ten Value Cards = -2; Twos, Threes, Fours, Fives and Sixes = +2; Sevens = +1; Eights = 0; Nines = -1., or for further clarification:
A-X -2, +2, +2, +2, +2, +2, +1, 0, -1, -2.

This is a balanced card counting system.
PE: 54.87 BE: 98.69 IN: 74.18

If anyone knows of prior publication of the above system by another author, I would appreciate being made aware of the source.

Keystone
April 2, 2010 7:25 A.M. EST
 
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R

Reno Revival

Member
ya, I just signed up an hour ago and posted that as my "Round 1" of Hi-Lo modification. I'm glad you like it.

it's under the post brain power :)
 
K

Keystone

Member
7's & 9's

Your Post:

Round 1
I switch 7s from 0 to 1/2 and 9s from 0 to -1/2

Keystone counts sevens as +1 and nines as -1.
 
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Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Keystone said:
Your Post:

Round 1
I switch 7s from 0 to 1/2 and 9s from 0 to -1/2

Keystone counts sevens as +1 and nines as -1. MM
Click to expand...
I call it "Higher-Lower" and it works well, it just doesn't have any advantages over any of the other level 2 systems.

For High-Low counters who are bored, you can count "Red 79" by counting the red 7's as low and the red 9's as high and doing everything else exactly as you would with High-Low. It gives you a couple of percent. (There's yet another version called "Black 79." :laugh:)
 
K

Keystone

Member
Halves

Reno Revival said:
ya your Keystone is the same as my Round 1, it just multiplies everything X2
Click to expand...

Close, but no cigar! You'll find there is a big differance in actual playing difficulty between counting halves or ones.
 
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K

Keystone

Member
Automatic Monkey said:
I call it "Higher-Lower" and it works well, it just doesn't have any advantages over any of the other level 2 systems.
Click to expand...

The stats are a little better than HI-LO, but the real purpose for the count is that I will not be using someone else's work. I plan to use it for training newbies. Also, someone beginning with Keystone will be a step up in moving on to another level II system. An easier transition, thats the thought process. I personally find that after you get use to level II, it is just as easy as level I. For a new player, I think the place to start is an easy level II. Keystone
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Keystone said:
The stats are a little better than HI-LO, but the real purpose for the count is that I will not be using someone else's work. I plan to use it for training newbies. Also, someone beginning with Keystone will be a step up in moving on to another level II system. An easier transition, thats the thought process. I personally find that after you get use to level II, it is just as easy as level I. For a new player, I think the place to start is an easy level II. Keystone
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Understandable, that you would want to create and contribute something original.

But you want to be careful of reinventing the wheel, especially when dealing with inexperienced players. System tags are not copyrighted and no one will hold it against you if you use tags that were published somewhere else. There are only so many sets of tags you can use in a level 2 system than make sense. Both I and QFIT have published simplified versions of the Revere Point Count, which provides optimal system tags for shoe games and is just as easy as your Keystone count.
 
Deathclutch

Deathclutch

Well-Known Member
They're all just 1's and 2's. I don't see why someone needs to learn a simple
level II. Isn't plus 1, plus 2, minus 1, minus 2 all the same?
 
J

johndoe

Well-Known Member
I don't see the purpose, except if you have some kind of ego thing for your "own" count. Why not use what is best?

I don't think it's any easier to learn a simple two-level vs a slightly more complex one, and you're probably doing your students (why do you have students?) a disservice by not giving them training on the better, more developed counts.
 
K

k_c

Well-Known Member
Keystone said:
Forum Members:

I would like to post the following publication in order to establish a public record of my proprietary blackjack card counting system:

The system is referred to as the "Keystone Advantage Point Count" and has the following tag values: Aces & Ten Value Cards = -2; Twos, Threes, Fours, Fives and Sixes = +2; Sevens = +1; Eights = 0; Nines = -1., or for further clarification:
A-X -2, +2, +2, +2, +2, +2, +1, 0, -1, -2.

This is a balanced card counting system.
PE: 54.87 BE: 98.69 IN: 74.18

If anyone knows of prior publication of the above system by another author, I would appreciate being made aware of the source.

Keystone
April 2, 2010 7:25 A.M. EST
Click to expand...

Having previously messed with using different tags, I think your tags are reasonable for the following reasons:

Rank 7 is closer to a full negative value card, but only if a player plays optimally (perfect play.) If basic strategy or anything close to it is used it is closer to half of a full negative card.

Rank 9, I think, is worth about half the value of a ten when a ten's value in a player being dealt a blackjack is eliminated from consideration, so for playing purposes it's value is about half of a ten.

Good luck
 
K

Keystone

Member
Deathclutch said:
They're all just 1's and 2's. I don't see why someone needs to learn a simple
level II. Isn't plus 1, plus 2, minus 1, minus 2 all the same?
Click to expand...
Tag values do make a big difference. How they offset each other is also important. If the BE and PE are higher by using a level II system, why not use it? Personally, I find the level II as easy as level one. So where do you place the values? A 99 (rounded) BE is pretty hard to argue with in a shoe game.

If new players are playing mostly shoe games, they should use a high BE system. Later, they may want to use Zen or something else for DD. Why learn level one when it would be easier to learn level II from the get go?

Even if tag values are not copyrighted, is it ok to use someone's work?

The Keystone count has a higher BE and PE than level one. It will beat most level II in a shoe game, and level III if you factor in errors.

In my mind, a count that is primarily +2 & -2 is easier because there are more offsetting cards.

It's not an ego thing. I want it to as simple and as easy as possible. It sims out well in a variety of games, and the index values are easy to recall also.

Keystone
 
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Deathclutch

Deathclutch

Well-Known Member
Keystone said:
Tag values do make a big difference. How they offset each other is also important. If the BE and PE are higher by using a level II system, why not use it? Personally, I find the level II as easy as level one. So where do you place the values? A 99 (rounded) BE is pretty hard to argue with in a shoe game.

If new players are playing mostly shoe games, they should use a high BE system. Later, they may want to use Zen or something else for DD. Why learn level one when it would be easier to learn level II from the get go?

Even if tag values are not copyrighted, is it ok to use someone's work?

The Keystone count has a higher BE and PE than level one. It will beat most level II in a shoe game, and level III if you factor in errors.

In my mind, a count that is primarily +2 & -2 is easier because there are more offsetting cards.

It's not an ego thing. I want it to as simple and as easy as possible. It sims out well in a variety of games, and the index values are easy to recall also.

Keystone
Click to expand...
I prefer a level II myself. What I meant was what is the point of learning a "simple" level II? Learn a more powerful count, all level II's are similar yo' learn.
 
K

Keystone

Member
DD Tag Values

I'd like to suggest the following Keystone Advantage Double Deck count for DD games:

A-X = -1, +1, +2, +2, +2, +2, +1, 0, -1, -2. (Balanced Count)

I have been using the count for the last thirty day playing double deck with great results and ease of use.

Give it a try for double deck.

Keystone
 
R

Renzey

Well-Known Member
Keystone said:
I'd like to suggest the following Keystone Advantage Double Deck count for DD games:

A-X = -1, +1, +2, +2, +2, +2, +1, 0, -1, -2. (Balanced Count)

I have been using the count for the last thirty day playing double deck with great results and ease of use.

Give it a try for double deck.

Keystone
Click to expand...
That's the Mentor Count from Blackjack Bluebook II.
 
K

Keystone

Member
Renzey said:
That's the Mentor Count from Blackjack Bluebook II.
Click to expand...
Just wanted to see if everyone was awake! Thanks for correcting me, don't know how I missed that. Never-the-less, a very good count for DD. K
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Keystone said:
Just wanted to see if everyone was awake! Thanks for correcting me, don't know how I missed that. Never-the-less, a very good count for DD. K
Click to expand...
It's a very good count for any game. Those system tags have some nice properties.

One is a high correlation to win percentage, as well as EV, so it tends to reduce swings. The other is excellent PE at high counts, where the ace starts to behave more like a high card than a low or neutral card due to all the index plays we are making where getting an ace is the best result.
 
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