# Question about index numbers at 0

#### mikeryn

##### Member
Ok I'm a little confused. 16 against a 10 you hit on a zero running count. 12 against a 4 you would stand on a zero running count. So for A7 against a 2 and an 11 against an ace would I double at zero or above for both of them or double just at anything above a 0 running count. I guess this is a question of how to read the index numbers. I know basic strategy says to always double, so I'm guessing that I would double at a running 0 as well? These numbers are for H17 multi deck game. And I got these indices from Professional Blackjack the 1994 edition so I hope they are correct, there seem to be different indices in different books and websites. For example some say to split 10,10 against a 6 at a true 4 and some say to split at a 5. I guess it depends on whether you are truncating or rounding and the rules of the game? I'm sorry I know some of these questions probably have been answered before. I have tried to find some clarification, but I am still confused about those specific deviations as stated above. Thanks to anyone reading and answering this post. I forgot to mention A8 against a 6. Also double a a running 0?

#### Hell'nBack

##### Well-Known Member
If you care about longevity, don't double A8 with a large bet out! No one does that except a counter. No where is this truer than in a double decker.

#### The G Man

##### Well-Known Member
mikeryn said:
Ok I'm a little confused. 16 against a 10 you hit on a zero running count. 12 against a 4 you would stand on a zero running count. So for A7 against a 2 and an 11 against an ace would I double at zero or above for both of them or double just at anything above a 0 running count. I guess this is a question of how to read the index numbers. I know basic strategy says to always double, so I'm guessing that I would double at a running 0 as well? These numbers are for H17 multi deck game. And I got these indices from Professional Blackjack the 1994 edition so I hope they are correct, there seem to be different indices in different books and websites. For example some say to split 10,10 against a 6 at a true 4 and some say to split at a 5. I guess it depends on whether you are truncating or rounding and the rules of the game? I'm sorry I know some of these questions probably have been answered before. I have tried to find some clarification, but I am still confused about those specific deviations as stated above. Thanks to anyone reading and answering this post. I forgot to mention A8 against a 6. Also double a a running 0?
If you have Wong's book, why don't you just read what he wrote in the charts?

It says:
Number: Stand (or double or split) at a count per deck equal to
or greater than the number; hit (or do not split) at a
count per deck less than the number.

#### mikeryn

##### Member
Ok I guess what had me confused was the YouTube clip of Colin Jones stating that you hit on a running zero with a 16 vs 10. Also Rick Blaine’s book Blackjack Blueprint says to hit a running 0 with a 12 against a 4. I’m not trying to be anal about this I’m just trying understand why the little differences.

#### DSchles

##### Well-Known Member
mikeryn said:
Ok I guess what had me confused was the YouTube clip of Colin Jones stating that you hit on a running zero with a 16 vs 10. Also Rick Blaine’s book Blackjack Blueprint says to hit a running 0 with a 12 against a 4. I’m not trying to be anal about this I’m just trying understand why the little differences.
Technically, those are errors. The Hi-Lo indices are zero for both of those plays, and that means that if your floored true count is exactly zero or higher, you stand.

Don't confuse the notion of a count of zero equating to basic strategy. BS has nothing to do with the count's being zero.

Don

#### mikeryn

##### Member
So couldn't I just use the running count for indices at 0. Any positive running count would be floored to at least 0, no? And any negative running count would be floored to at least -1 no matter what my divisor is.

#### gronbog

##### Well-Known Member
You can use the running count for 16 vs T and 12 vs 4. The index number is zero, so you stand on 16 vs T and 12 vs 4 at a running count of zero and above. Having said that, for 16 vs T, the decision right at a running count of zero is so close that it really doesn't matter what you do. The same is not true of 12 vs 4 where standing at a running count of zero is clearly the correct play.

You say the game is multi-deck H17. For A,7 vs 2 and 11 Vs A, Wong's index numbers to double are both zero however, people forget or maybe don't know that his index numbers are for truncating the fractions when converting from the running count to the true count. The correct index number when flooring is -1 for both plays. Either way, you can't just use the running count to make these decisions.

#### mikeryn

##### Member
Thanks so much. Do you know where I can find the correct index numbers for flooring? I would like to get the qfit software but I don’t have a windows computer and before I invest in it for my Mac or get a cheaper Microsoft computer I would like to know if I can actually do this.

#### gronbog

##### Well-Known Member
For flooring, you will be mostly correct if you leave Wong's positive index numbers as they are and subtract 1 from his negative index numbers. Where his index numbers are zero, it can get tricky, as you now know. You won't go horribly wrong if you use his zero indices even when flooring. There are exceptions, like A,7 vs 2 and 11 vs A, which I mentioned earlier among others.

The QFIT software (CVData) is currently the best commercial option for generating index numbers for the exact rules and conditions you're interested in.