Quit Blackjack?

[matteotm]

Hi all,

well after about 2 years of playing at the $10 table at my local casino (sydney, australia) $100 buy in i decided to step it up to the $25 table with a $250 buy in .over the period of about 14 weeks i went once a week and kept a record of my nights in a book.. by week 14 i was UP about $2000. ( i know the correct BS off by heart but im sure luck plays the biggest part in terms of winning or losing. anyway on week 14 i lost my $250 but instead of walking out i ended up losing $1400 all up that night (which to me is alot of money) silly on my part to take my bank cards into the casino. and when i left that night i vowed to quit gambling forever, because it can be quite upsetting a stressful at times. espically that night i had so many bad beats, i know there ups and downs in blackjack like life. my question is has any1 had any similar experiences? is quitting the right idea? i must admit i have felt great in the 2 weeks i havent gambled even though i have been tempted at times (having a full size blackjack table in my house with all the equipment dosent help i guess either)

any thoughts/advice ? im at a cross roads.
but on the other side i really do love blackjack. but sometimes i think "why let your mood be determined by what cards you get that night" determine your own mood and take control back of your life and it will make you a happier person?

im not hear to bad mouth gambling or certainly blackjack. im just interested of everybodys thoughts on these matters. we all know with BS alone the casino has a slight advantage so in the long run. you will never make any money from playing the BS. on a side note . counting is not possible in sydney because they put the cards back in the deck every few hands and the deck is constantly being reshuffled automatically. so the next card could be anything.

 

[mdw]

Having a little trouble with your math. To recap, after 14 weeks you were up $2000 dollars. So at that point your bankroll was $2000 dollars. You then bought in for $250.00 at a $25.00 table. That would be 10 betting units. At some point you were down $250 leaving a balance in your bankroll of $1750. In other words you managed to loose 10 hands You then lost another $1400 dollars. That leaves a balance of $350 in your bankroll. We all know the feeling of not walking away a winner, but it appears you are still ahead. Playing BS in the long run is a loosing proposition. BS minimizes your losses for the long run. Always set a stop win, and a stop loss amount before entering the casino and most importantly stick to it. And never wager money you are not ready to loose. Give yourself some time and see if you miss playing blackjack. In the mean time start rebuilding your bankroll. If you want to play $25.00 tables, I don't believe $250.00 is near enough to cover any kind of swings. If after some time you find you do miss the "action" then head back to the casino. Pick a lower limit table and get your confidence back. Hope this was not too much of a lecture.

 

[Mikeaber]

I concur with everything MDW said. It is a sinking feeling to take a beat like you did. But if you enjoy playing the game, go back to $5 for a while. If you loose, you loose but it won't be nearly as much. Then when you get back into your comfort zone, make your decision to bump it up if you want to.

I had a very similar situation in the early part of May. I played $5 tables and was up over $500. Then after two days, decided to take the $500 and play at the green chip level. Withinn about an hour, I lost it all. I went back to $5 bets and for the next three days, was on a downward spiral. I ended up loosing $800 NOT COUNTING the $500 that I lost from my previous winnings.

It took several trips to local casinos playing at $3 tables before I was back in the groove again. We just got back from Vegas and on this past trip, I came out $200 up from what I started with.

BJ is a fickle game, but a good one. If you play it, you have to be prepared to walk out with a loss. But the advise that is good is just as MDW stated: Set a loss limit and stick to it.

 

[matteotm]

Good Advice

Thats great advice guys it sounds like the right thing to do. just to clear up some small details . the $1400 was inclusive of the bankroll of $250 (so at the point where i walked out i was still "up $600" overall but i guess the differnce being the $2000 i was "up" going into the casino i had allready spent on a few items i wanted to indulge in like clothes and some entertainment equipment. so then to lose the $1400 it really felt like it was "my own money" if you catch my drift. whats your advice on bankrolls for example how many "units" ie 20 units x $10 table. 20 units x $25 table. what amout of units do you think covers the "swing". Ive always though that if i lose 10 units its unlikely your going to turn it around and come out on top from my experience. normally on winning nights you can recall winning from the start or those nights "when u cant do a thing wrong". perhaps if and when i do go back, i should swallow my pride and head back to the $10 table (the only reason i dislike them is that its extremly hard to get a seat, every box is always being played and there is alot of the people playing who dont really know what there doing and its a bit frustrating to watch ) LOL. but i guess it is the lesser of two evils.

i think at the least i should skip 6 more weeks before i go back (and pretend i lost $250 per week on 4 consecutive weeks and $150 on the 5th)

 

[sir losealot]

here's my take on it....

Matteotm..
if i read between the lines what i hear you saying is that at the green chip level you managed to work your initial 250 to 2000 meaning that you were up by 80 hands(80 times 25=2000) but you lost it all back to the dealer and another 1400$ to boot. That's equal to giving back the 80 hands and then another 56 hands to boot....if you consider that the house will win more hands then the player by default ( according to the engine it's 43% win loss ratio or 47 wins and 53 losses and you make up the % on bj and dd) and if in 14 days you played 300 hands a day or 4200 hands then your loss seems normal....
I wonder how many hours you played at 10$.
At the green chip level you would have passed nearly 100000 if you were flat betting green chip for 14 days at 300 hands daily and the house would have had you for .5%(give or take). That's 500$....Either you are losing a lot more hands then you should at this point...or you are not hitting on those dd and your bj average is below par....or you won way to many hands at 10$ and gave them all back once you moved up to green chip...
Either way i think that you should only quit playing bj or any form of gambling if the money you are risking is screwing up your life. If you can afford being down by 5000$ and seeing yourself recover 99.5% at some point then by all means go for it.....
You asked........
PS...ask yourself this..........if i move to 3$ then how many hands will it take to recover $1400?
Good Luck.........

 

[BJStanko]

Discipline. Finger Thick Nervs

It sucks!!!!!

No matter how much you know about game, it hurts to lose.

The most important thing in those situations is to have finger thick nervs, steal nervs!!!!!!!

Also bankrol should be adjusted to your average bet. Rule of the thumb is to have bankroll that is 200 times bigger than your average bet. I practise 300 - 350 bigger than my average bet. Setion bankroll should be about 40-50 times average bet. Buy in of 50 has 1 percent chanse of being lost in 320 decisions.
So with your average bet of $25 you should have bankrol that is at least $25x200= $5000 I would go for about $7 000
Setion bankroll should be about $25x50=$1250.

Yes this is a lots of money! But it is lot better saving over the long period of time and than hit the bj tables. I strongly believe in bankroll that will be set aside only for blackjack so you dont have to regullary subtract money from your pay check. It will also give you perfect picture of wins and losses.

Any kind of money management is good. Have a plan and stick to it. If you lose $100 exit the game , if you start being frustrated about the card that are coming out leave the game, go relax. It is hard, but it will save you money in short term , and what is even more important it WON'T RUIN YOUR HEALTH! It is so hard on the body and nervs harth and brain! Do not cook your self at the table , it is very easy to leave!

And no , do not quit playin BJ!!!!!!!! :cool2:

 

[Mikeaber]

Only a comple of things to add.

When you win, that is YOUR money, not the casino's money! I'm quite sure that the casino doesn't consider what your loose "your money" <grin>.

Another thing....your were up $2,000 or $1,400...whatever....from previous trips. Unless you set aside that money you won, then you shouldn't set that amount as a loss limit. If you've already spent it on groceries, then you don't have it to loose!

Start each session at the tables as a unique and separate event. Have your loss limit set ahead of time and stick to it. I hate to see anyone get into financial trouble because of something that started out being a "recreational activity." From the description of your betting habits, you are a "recreational gambler" just as I am. When it stops being recreation, then you've lost.

You mentioned session limit calculations. I can only tell you what I do. I use a 20 unit rule. If I'm going to be playing $5 hands, then I like to have $100. If I'm playing $25 hands, then I want to have at least $500. I've posted a basic money management strategy (not a progression or anything at all like that) that helps me keep track of where I stand at any point in a day or even in a specific session. You might want to look it over and modify it to your needs. I use it to determine when I should stop playing for a while and maybe find another table or even another activity...like sleeping or playing video poker!

 

[BJStanko]

I also found this money management technique very effective. (short term technique)

For example let's say bankroll is $1000
Most of the time when we play BJ almost every game, it is kind of push pull game, which means player wins than house wins, and so on. Well what I used to do when not having planty of money, or just playing for fun, I would pick some money let's say from aboves example $1000, and than simply if I lose $150 I would leave the game and probably not play again that day. If I win $150 same thing. Specially works well with CSM and automatic shufflers!
1-2-3-5 spread, plus discipline to leave seems to work very well! Of course it doesn't give you adventage but keeps you playing for some time! It is all based on thinking that during one game my bankroll will go up at least two times. If you win $150 your bankroll would be $1150 next time. If you go down to $1000 next time leave the game!

 

[matteotm]

Many Thanks

Thanks guys! i will write down all your advice and come up with the best ideas for my situation! iii definately give BJ another chance in my life! LOL but just discpline myself more greatly so it always stays enjoyable.

III be sure to let you all how i go in the weeks to come.

Cheers.

(im off to watch the blackjack scene in 'Rainman' for inspiration) LOL

 

[SweetAxtion]

Hit and Run

The best advice that I can give is to be in control of your emotions and have discipline*discipline*discipline in regards to your stop-loss limits AND what you plan on making that session. That's what I do and I'm on a 100k run right now over the past 2 1/2 months.

I agree with what most of the advice that you've been given in regards to making sure your bankroll is sufficient and having good money management skills.

What I do is simple for my own taste. The analogy that I give is if you had $100.00 dollars and I told you to leave after making $5.00 dollars so you'd effectively be leaving the casino with $105.00 would you have the discipline to do so? If you answered "yes", then start off by making $5.00 dollars a day. Go everyday and by the end of the week you've got $25.00 (weekends off).

The problem I find with blackjack is that most people who bring $100.00 to the table want to go home with at least double their money or they don't feel like they've accomplished anything.

So what am I getting at here? Play within your bankroll just as already suggested. Establish a strict stop-loss/stop-win limit, and NEVER see your winnings as "Casino money anyway". As well, try and adopt the attitude that you are not going to the Casino to have fun...you're there to avenge all the retired old folks who lose their pension checks. You're there to take the money from those who have no problems taking it from people who have gambling addictions.

 

[matteotm]

thats awsome advice

 

[matteotm]

update

just thought id update you all on my BJ adventures as promised!
well tonight i headed back to the casino with a fresh new attitude. and it worked!.. (i waited for 20 minutes for a seat to become vacant at the lowest possible table $10 table) with a bank roll of $200.00 and doubled in one hour and then left. mission accomplished! i cashed up the $200 and kept the two black chips from next time i go as my starting BR. i parked a block away from the casino so i didnt have to worry about trying "stay playing long enough to get free parking" (a little trap they like to use to get people to play) or use my rewards card at all (ive cut it up) some may disagree but i can say that in sydney its not like vegas.. comps dont exist!!! the most u will get for 4 hours play green chip is a free $6 breakfast coupon LOL. (theres so cheap) but i cant blame them when the closest competition is literally 1000kms away.

i left my bank cards at home this time LOL. which i would highly reccomend. one thing other than protect yourself against losing more money than u planned. it gives you more desire when your playing!.. instead of thinking "oh well if i lose i can just get some more money".. you know thats no longer an option it makes the game more exciting anyway. LOL.

One final scenario i thought everyone would enjoy

Full table..everybody is on 18 19s or 20's
lady in the very middle box gets two pictures
(it was her first time playing and she had made serval wrong moves before this including hitting on a hard 18 against the dealers advice)
anyway she decides to split the 10's despite us all telling her shes giving up a winning hand (against a dealers 3)
she gets two more pictures for two hands of 20

the rest of the table stands on there 19's and 20's

dealer gets a 5 card 21 and eveybody lost.
LOLLLLLL
and i said to the guy sitting next to me "looks like shell have to learn her lesson the hard way"

all the best.

 

[SweetAxtion]

Great story there Matt.

I had a similiar funny one the other night. I had bumped it up to 1k on three hands. I was sitting pat on two 20's and a 19, and the other three spots were also sitting on two 20's and an 18. No one was going to hit since the dealer showed a 3.

Well wouldn't you know it...1st base ACCIDENTLY motions for a hit with his 15 and draws a 4 for a nineteen.

Dealer draws next for a 4...than a face. 1st base saved me 3k by his accidental hit. And everyone ended winning that hand.

 

[matteotm]

lol

lol wow.. that some good fortune if ever i have heard about it haha. i hope you shaked his hand after the hand lol!

 

[SweetAxtion]

lol wow.. that some good fortune if ever i have heard about it haha. i hope you shaked his hand after the hand lol!

When he hit it we ALL couldn't believe it. Actually neither could he haha. But it was too late.

But hey...for every story like this I've lost as many hands in the same manner.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Casinos Have Nothing to Fear

The players in this thread probably lost their money to the casino and quit playing!:joker::whip:

 

[Sucker]

The players in this thread probably lost their money to the casino and quit playing!:joker::whip:

Or they soon WILL. This whole thread is wrought with danger signs of problem gambling, and NOT just from the OP.

 

[NightStalker]

honest suggestion

quit it

 

[prankster]

So-you guys see something crazy about playing a $25 min table with a br of $250? Really?

 

[blackjack avenger]

OP From July 2005

That and the several posters that follow before my 1st post are all gone! They lost their money a long time ago!:joker::whip:

Casinos should love counters:joker::whip: